Author Topic: Fiberglass Turbo Plenum?  (Read 11456 times)

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Offline kiwi

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Re: Fiberglass Turbo Plenum?
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2011, 03:46:41 AM »
You could make it out of mild steel. Cheap, easy to work and weld, and reasonably ductile for absorbing a backfire. Plate it for corrosion resistance (HPC, zinc, whatever) and it will also add some weight to the bike as well.

Offline maj

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Re: Fiberglass Turbo Plenum?
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2011, 05:12:13 AM »
An Aussie company makes CF plenums , mostly for Triumphs , but he can or has done others , i asked several yrs ago but the price scared me off
http://www.racecomp.com.au/turbo.htm


Offline Speed Limit 1000

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Re: Fiberglass Turbo Plenum?
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2011, 07:24:16 AM »
You could tack everything together then have a welder finish it. :cheers:
John Gowetski, red hat @ 221.183 MPH MSA Lakester, Bockscar #1000 60 ci normally aspirated w/N20

Offline hombre

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Re: Fiberglass Turbo Plenum?
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2011, 10:05:38 AM »
I built my plenum from 6063 aluminum extrusion with a 1/4" wall thickness. End plates are welded on both outside and inside. I'm very lucky to have an extremely skilled welder able to do that.





You can source a few different 6063 extrusion shapes here: http://www.rossmachineracing.com/plenumextrusions.html

You will notice they don't sell any thinner plenum material.  :roll:
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 10:10:51 AM by hombre »

Offline sabat

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Re: Fiberglass Turbo Plenum?
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2011, 10:07:01 AM »
Nice Hombre!

My first plenum let go after a wicked backfire, scared the hell out of me.

I suggest making it considerably stronger than necessary, it also helps if you need to tap into it for fittings or BOVs or what have you. Aluminum is light, cheap, corrosion resistant and strong if thick enough.

Offline bak189

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Re: Fiberglass Turbo Plenum?
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2011, 10:14:46 AM »
How about a "pop-off valve"........they are adjustable to various boost pressures and prevent "blowing up" your plenum in case of a back fire.............................................................................................. 
Question authority.....always

Offline hombre

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Re: Fiberglass Turbo Plenum?
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2011, 10:22:29 AM »
Nice Hombre!

My first plenum let go after a wicked backfire, scared the hell out of me.


Thanks, Dean... that might have hurt if you'd been laying directly on it!

Offline sabat

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Re: Fiberglass Turbo Plenum?
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2011, 11:28:54 PM »
How about a "pop-off valve"........they are adjustable to various boost pressures and prevent "blowing up" your plenum in case of a back fire.............................................................................................. 

True. But once I figured out that the aftermarket "heavy duty" valve springs were actually weaker than stock, I corrected the backfiring issue. Great learning experience.


Offline tauruck

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Re: Fiberglass Turbo Plenum?
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2012, 01:54:56 AM »
Carbon fibre can do the job and there are resins that stand up very well to chemicals and high temperature. It's doable for sure but not for someone with little or no experience. Glassfibre comes in many different forms and the aero spec stuff is excellent but chopped strand mat is a no no in this case. It's a case of how deep your pockets are IMO.

Offline Koncretekid

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Re: Fiberglass Turbo Plenum?
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2012, 11:24:09 PM »
Excuse my ignorance, but is the air box on a  naturally aspirated motor subject to the same vulnerability to backfire induced explosion as a turbo-charged one?  And why would a turbo-charged air only system be subject to such an explosion?

Also, I see plenums attached with silicone hose and hose clamps.  Is the plenum really the weak point? 

Uh Oh! ......I think I should probably make a stronger blast panel over my motor than .030" aluminum, even if mine is naturally aspirated.

Tom
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Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!

Offline hotrod

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Re: Fiberglass Turbo Plenum?
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2012, 11:32:51 PM »
Quote
Also, I see plenums attached with silicone hose and hose clamps.  Is the plenum really the weak point?  

And those routinely blow off if they are not properly restrained with straps across the hose to keep the joint from spreading.
To answer your direct question, the issue is more of shape than anything else.

A round tube is inherently strong at resisting internal pressure but square and angular shapes get a real workout from pressure changes "oil canning" the flat surfaces, and often fail at the corners.

If you get a good healthy backfire in a NA engine you can get high enough pressures to split a plenum, especially if the situation causes fuel mist to get blown into the intake plenum then that fuel air mixture gets ignited by a second backfire.

Even at relatively low over pressures like 3-4 psi, if you add up the surface area of the flat surfaces and multiply by that small over pressure the resulting numbers are pretty impressive if the plenum is any size at all.

Suppose the top of a square plenum is 6 inches wide by 8 inches long, that is 48 square inches. If your backfire pressure is 4 psi, than there is 180 pounds of force trying to rip the top off the plenum. Is your plenum strong enough for a good sized man to jump up and down on it with no failure?

If a pre-existing crack is developing it can unzip the corners and launch that flat plate with surprising force (and velocity).

If a spin or some other situation causes  fuel air mixture to get pushed back into the intake plenum for some reason and then it ignites you have a small fuel air bomb.

Larry

Offline Queeziryder

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Re: Fiberglass Turbo Plenum?
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2012, 05:22:51 AM »
Just to add my 2c worth into this discussion;

When I was running my turbo funny bike, with 30 PSI boost and 3 stages of nitrous we usitilsed 2 burst plates, one on each end of a long tubular plenum chamber. Theses were made from plastic milk cartons, and would burst at approx 45 psi if they were 2" in diameter.
Plastic allowed flexing to take account of any turbo pulsing due to the nitrous, but would still burst nicely if needed. The burst panels were held on with bolt on rings and we never had any failures.

HTH
Neil

PS
The plenum was 4" OD .125" wall
Old enough to know better, but too interested in speed to care

Offline Hellcat Customs

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Re: Re: Fiberglass Turbo Plenum?
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2012, 12:34:04 PM »
I tried the carbon fibre idea a few years back... It was costly and kept cracking. We switched to mild steel painted it inside and out... Works well was cheaper to make or alter at will... The bov is a good idea... Get the pressure in front of the turbo out during shifts if you close the throttle slightly, shuts the waste gate for quicker spooling between shifts, prevents some surging issues as well

Bak189 knows a lot about turbo 4's... I try to watch what he says in discussions...

Offline hombre

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Re: Fiberglass Turbo Plenum?
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2012, 10:27:35 AM »
We found that over 24 PSI boost requires V-band clamps rather than slip joints.


« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 11:02:19 AM by hombre »

Offline Hellcat Customs

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Re: Re: Re: Fiberglass Turbo Plenum?
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2012, 04:22:37 PM »
We found that over 24 PSI boost requires V-band clamps rather than slip joints.



Can more than understand why... That's a ton a boost...

Is there any good way to weld a flange into the compressor housing?