Chasing Dragons

[Breck]

First off,  Hello

My name is Breck and I am fresh as a new born baby to land racing.  My first newbie question, to this forum or any other like it is....
How to chase, catch and pass a jet dragster, down the Texas Mile,  With a 2.0 liter Ecotec?  : ]  

I'll give you a minute to quit rolling around laughing...

OK, first question.  What platform?  After some months of digging I'm thinking Lakester would have the best cd, and be the lightest choice for 4 wheels.

Second question.  What is the weight of the lightest Lakester?  I have seen 1500 lbs.  GM SO-CAL Ecotec

Third.. What is a likely Cd?

Here is what I am thinking.  Space Machine 6500 lb thrust, 1750lb 324 mph, 5280 ft.   Can't compare thrust to hp, so top fuel dragster 8000 hp, 1750 lbs 300 mph 1000 ft, ruffly that's 4.6 hp to 1 lb.  
If a Lakster weight 1300lbs with 1300 hp that 1 hp to 1 lb.  I want to go 325mph in 5280 ft.  4.6 times less hp/wt 5.3 times the distance to get there.  They say land racing gets in your blood, I guess so, this is all I have thought about for months!  

I await your wisdom, or SWAGs : ]

[Stainless1]

Breck, just put a more reliable motor in  a top fuel dragster..... one that runs for 15 seconds should do it... 

[Breck]

Hey Stainless

After reading your post, I sat here a few minutes thinking... why didn't I think of that?  Seems like an obvious choice for asphalt.  A quick search for dragsters for sale yielded bunches.  From $7500 with no motor/trans up.  Found a 6.00 second top fuel dragster complete with a fresh blown 404 Ci all aluminum motor, 26' trailer with tools for $50,000.  Bargin!  If I only had $50 grand.. : ]  Here is the link  
http://www.racingjunk.com/category/19/Dragsters/post/1972859/250-SPITZER-TOP-DRAGSTER-OR-ELITE-8.html

This all started with my grandfathers 62 Corvair.  That car had been sitting around for years. I decided I would redo it, wanted more power, more gears, disc brakes...   Looked at a 350 in the back seat, a reverse rotation 4.3L where the motor ought to be, trans verse NorthStar, transverse Ecotec.  Spent months grinding every detail.  Finally decided I could take the front engine, trans, suspension from a Coblat and stick it in the back of the Corvair.  The more I looked at that Ecotec the more I like it.  First I had heard of it was Popular Mechanics, I think, this bad little 2.0L 4 cylinder, setting records at Bonneville.  A two hundred pound motor capable of 1450 hp.  It might have been a couple of days before I started thinking about putting one in a late model vair (factory Cd of .36, early model, 4 dr, .42) and seeing if I could find my way to Bonneville and maybe 200 mph.  Sound familiar?  Then I heard about the Texas Mile, the first record I saw was 257, turbo Toyota Supra.  Sounded fast, sounded fun, wanted in.  Found a top speed calc, used 8000 rpm .65 sixth gear, 3.88 final drive, 335 30 19's, something like 260 mph.  : ]  Maybe three hours later I watched a video of a jet dragster bump the record up to 324 mph!  I was amazed, it was AWESOME!  The two times that guy hit the after burner, it looked like the car doubled in speed.  What a rush and the suddenly very depressing.  That record pushed what looked like one hell of a challenge to, #@&$ there is no way to beat that without another jet funny car...  A few hours after that I got it in my head there had to be a way.

Pretty much an all consuming thought since then.  The idea has gone from a LM Corvair with two 1000 hp Ecotecs to maybe just one  to a belly tank lakester to maybe a dragster.  Sure do like those belly tanks, and I don't want to limit my options to just an asphalt mile.  Still like the late model vair to, chopped top front air dam very low, just looks fast, I have seen it in my head, flying through the desert and across the salt, I get an adrenalin rush just thinking about it.. .  This probably should have gone in the intro section, I have rambled enough.  

Thanks for your input.

Breck
 

[Peter Jack]

In truth Breck, you don't want a dragster. There is too much flex in the chassis and they aren't designed to go further than a quarter mile. I think you'd find the handling deteriorates rapidly. It wouldn't pass tech at Bonneville. Others have tried.

A dragster type chassis with heavier tubing and a better front end is what you need to do the job.

Now go for it!

Pete

[Breck]

Hello Peter

Thanks for that, I bet it's a real drag spending months or years and big bucks getting to to Boneville, only to told you can't go play.  Any ideas about how long the frame should be.  Mid engine, slipstream type arrangement, sounds pretty doable.  Certainly seams easier than working inside a tear shaped belly tank.  Rectangular frame and more or less rectangular body work, except for wheel fairings, canopy and tail section.  Any body know of any mid engine dragster frame plans, hanging around on the net?


"Now go for it!   "

Thanks for that to

[DallasV]

If your going to build a dragster type lakester for land speed racing I would research a few successful lsr lakesters with that style. Fast Freddy, Joe Law, Got Salt, and Nick the 3rds old car come to mind.

[Breck]

Hey DallasV

Thanks for the leads.  I've seen Got Salt, like that one very much.  No tire fairings, engine cowling or boat tail that I could see.  So far I have only seen the side and front. 

Have a good one.

Breck

[Peter Jack]

Tire fairings aren't allowed on a lakester. The Hammond car is a really good example of the ultimate rear engined car.

Pete

[Breck]

Cool.

I have one of these pictures and couldn't remember who or where.  Just found it, here's the link
http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/hrdp_0910_300_mph_lakester/index.html

Thanks again Pete

[Glen]

Before you build or buy any vehicle you should make a trip to the salt with a camera and a lot of note book paper,stroll the inspection area, the pit area and ask a lot of questions. 99% will go out of there way to help you. LSR is not like any other racing venue. The trip is worth the learning curve and will save you tons of head aches.

[DallasV]

Yes the Hammond car is much sleeker than a dragster type lakester. I saw your earlier post wowing at a $50,000 price tag. To build a Hammond type lakester will be slightly north of 50k.    This is the basic design I was mentioning. http://www.landracing.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=29&pos=26

[Breck]

Hello Glen

Sounds like great advice.  I all ready have a headache.  In last 5 minute I have found two more Seth Hammond cars, one looks sorta like a belly tank with nostrills and the other is a front engine dragster lakester.  Looks like Seth has been around for A While, and I wonder how long I will have to data mine before I find a site with all his stuff, ther are bunches of hits for him.  If ever.  Sure would be a lot easier to just to walk up, have a look and drive a few of you crazy with questions.

You seam like a friendly bunch to me.

Thanks

[Breck]

Yes the Hammond car is much sleeker than a dragster type lakester. I saw your earlier post wowing at a $50,000 price tag. To build a Hammond type lakester will be slightly north of 50k.    This is the basic design I was mentioning. http://www.landracing.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=29&pos=26

OK. Now it's five Seth Hammond cars. : ]

Agreed.  Sheiker, sleeker and Much more complicated and looks about as big bucks as anything I've seen, short of twin jet engines breaking the speed of sound.

I'm relieved that wasn't the one you were talking about.  I want to do it right but I don't want to have to rob banks to do it. I'd also like to do it in my lifetime.

Thanks for the link

[DallasV]

The three Hammond cars you saw were his belly tank type lakester which was sacrificed to the salt gods, the second was his modified roadster which is still being run by another owner, the link you posted is his current lakester, one of the nicest pieces ever on the salt. The picture I linked you to is a lakester once owned by Nick Arias III, I don't know who currently ownes it. I just wanted to show you the basic design of dragster type lakesters at the salt. Joe Law and Fred Danenfelzer have this same basic design. Fred ran over 360 in his with a blown B motor, I'm pretty sure he was in the can pretty heavy as well.

[55chevr]

Have you given any consideration as to just how you will stop this machine at Texas ...?