tri-y headers

[BALS aSALT]

has anyone heard of tri-y headers with the primary tube being bigger than the secondary tube? such as 2 3/8 stepped down to a 2 1/4 secondary. i'm thinking my header guy is backwards. shouldn't the primary be larger? or is that theory opposite on tri-y headers?

[Jerry O]

BALS...... I can't think of any application where you would run a smaller secondary pipe with Tri-Y headers. At one time I designed and built all the headers for the Robert Yates NASCAR team. I have done a lot of testing with the tri-Y headers and have seen no performance gains. Actually, performance loss when the secondary tube gets too small and too long. I also use the tri-y headers on some of the NHRA Pro Sock cars when they are at a high altitude track like Denver. Lower rpm and bad air.  What engine are going to use these on. Is it for a Land speed car or some other application.

Jerry O

[BALS aSALT]

hey jerry, these headers would be for my car. the camaro. but i think maybe i just might stick to the traditional 4 into 1 header. i thought my friend had the tubes backwards............he hates it when i'm right.

[Jerry O]

 I think the 4-1 headers would be a better choice for a track like B-ville. The Tri-y system may be OK if you are going to run on shorter 1 mile tracks. Either way, they both need to be designed around your engine specs.

Jerry O

[dick elliott]

Done this way for anti-reversion back to the cylinder head. There are easyer way.

[jimmy six]

Headers are not only an "art form" but to many a "black" art as well. The guy sounds backwards to me.

I have used what maybe interpretated to be Tri-Y for years but it's because of the engine style and the RPM performance I am looking for. Torque gains, like max HP gains, can be made from combining to cylinders correctly and with length which is very specific to the engine you are using and it's components. For the most part "off the shelf" headers will give all around performance but maybe not where you are looking for it.

There are some excellant header specialists which will design them for you and supply many of the components for you to have you get them constructed to fit in your vehicle.

Remember HP is not cheap; exhaust systems as well as oil pans can make up some HP and Torque you did not think was available.............Good Luck

[maguromic]

Headers are not only an "art form" but to many a "black" art as well. The guy sounds backwards to me.

I am with JD on this.  Are you sure you want a guy like this working on your race car?  Tony

[wobblywalrus]

I see who is working on your race car in your avatar. 

[fastman614]

We ar running Tri-Y headers on the Dodge engine in our lakester.... and.... they get larger towards the collector.... I am not an expert on header design but ... i would be thinking about not bucking trends that seem to work.... I have run into a lot of theoreticians over the years- some who have 101 reasons (make that 202) as to why neither our Vega nor our lakester could go as fast as either of them have gone.... I really do not have the tolerance in my life for untried theories.... which may possibly be what your header builder friend has wrapped up in his head.....

[Anvil*]

has anyone heard of tri-y headers with the primary tube being bigger than the secondary tube? such as 2 3/8 stepped down to a 2 1/4 secondary. I'm thinking my header guy is backwards. shouldn't the primary be larger? or is that theory opposite on tri-y headers?

Only ever ran with larger secondaries (and not on the salt), FE Fords do well with the Tri-y but the use is usually towards getting more horsepower under the curve while trading off peak horsepower. Primaries the other way round sounds very bass-ackwards, but that's an opinion, I've never even considered trying it.

[krusty]

On our 303" single carb gas engine (Keith Dorton-built from Hendrick SB2.2 bits and pieces plus his own ideas) the standard "dyno header", a Hendrick Cup tri-Y style, made 7 lbft and 13 hp more than the 4-1 headers we built for the rear-engined roadster. The 4-1 exhaust had quality merge collectors, too.

 I would have built tri-ys, but didn't have the time (and maybe not the space without some creative work and aero compromises). I'm no header builder or designer, I just used the best info available at the time without getting into full design program. The 13 hp (which occurrred at a peak 100 rpm higher than the 4-1s) is an almost 2% increase in power we don't have available currently. Primary sizing and the sizing of the "nozzles" in both the primary and secondary merges is critical to maximizing power; time and money (and time IS money) will dictate your approach.

 That said, your header guy doesn't sound well enough experienced in design (like me!) to perform your build unless you choose to overlook the possible power sacrifice.       vic   

[fastman614]

Krusty.... did you ever consider buying a set of "cup" tri-y headers on ebay and have them tweaked to fit your chassis?...

[jimmy six]

Krusty and all...My GMC headers were designed by one of the designers and builders of NASCAR exhaust systems.(hardest ones he said they ever did)

 My brain light went on several years ago when I saw one upside down in a still shot.... the rest is history. My car was used on one of the manufacturers banners at the PRI Show this year....Big compliment for a backyard racer.....JD

[krusty]

Believe me, at the time the "tweaking" of a set Cup headers would have meant missing Speedweek (where we set 2 records and the driver earned a red hat). Since the car ran well, we made other improvements and raised our record 12 mph in 2010. The headers may be changed to tri-ys this year - it is a matter of $ and priorities/ROI.   vic     PS: No need to buy used try-ys on eBay, I am here in the heart of NASCAR.

[racergeo]

   Krusty, do you mind telling us what kind of power and torque you engine made. what kind of compression are you at. Sounds like you did your home work and your results prove it.