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Author Topic: Is it a V8 or a twin 4???  (Read 4065 times)

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Offline Rex Schimmer

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Is it a V8 or a twin 4???
« on: February 08, 2011, 11:05:23 AM »
Looking at Rick Yacoucci's new engine configuration for his streamliner I am wondering if SCTA considers this an "engine" or "engines". As is goes into a streamliner it really doesn't matter but could I do something similar for a lakester? which does not allow multi engines. I think that I have asked this before without a good reply but as I am working on a lakester design for the lower displacements I could easily see doing something like Rich has done but with a pair of Yamaha 350 twin two strokes to make a J class motor, but am I making a new 700 cc engine or is it a twin engine??

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Offline SPARKY

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Re: Is it a V8 or a twin 4???
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2011, 11:07:30 AM »
Years ago I asked that question and was told that it would have to have a common block or crank shaft or something similiar to the Aussie busa 8
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Offline dw230

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Re: Is it a V8 or a twin 4???
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2011, 11:23:44 AM »
Rex,

Was it really not a good answer or an answer you didn't want to hear?

As Sparky says, common crank/block make a single engine. Why not send a question to rulebookinfo@scta-bni.org, or use the form on www.scta-bni.org?

DW
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Offline panic

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Re: Is it a V8 or a twin 4???
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2011, 11:44:11 AM »
That's the only way that makes sense.
If some components can be removed and the remainder still make an engine, it was 2 engines.

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Is it a V8 or a twin 4???
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2011, 12:27:24 PM »
Ask Gabriel Utley.  He's building the "Angelic Bulldog" bike liner and will be using an engine(s) built from a pair of 4-cylinder bike motors.  I believe he's received permission from FIM to call it a single motor.  I remember quite a bit of discussion here a while back.  Search for it under "Angelic Bulldog" in the Forum search engine.
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Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: Is it a V8 or a twin 4???
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2011, 12:49:58 PM »
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

Online Peter Jack

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Re: Is it a V8 or a twin 4???
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2011, 02:02:28 PM »
Jon, that engine is a true V-8. It uses a single crankshaft and only the cylinders and heads are from a m/c.

Pete

Offline LittleLiner

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Re: Is it a V8 or a twin 4???
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2011, 04:02:33 PM »
production engines with multiple crankshafts, while rare, do exist.  Examples would be the Ariel Square Four and the Rotax 256 tandem 2 cylinder two stroke.  Other examples are the opposed piston designs where there are two cranks with the pistons meeting head to head to form a combustion chamber.  So . .  multiple cranks would not be a hard and fast rule for multi engine definition.  However those engines started out as one engine from their manufacturer. 
 . . . in the case (bad pun) of the "V8 Busa" the cylinders and heads are from two engines but there is only one crank.  That one might be in the gray area as to being one or two engines. 

However the special two litre engine(s) being built from two bike engines are IMHO "two engines."

Hummm . . . . . If you aren't allowed to run two engines in anything but streamliners (car and bike), Sidecar streamliners, and open (A) bikes.    . . . I guess that means -by definition- that all other classes must run only one engine. 

If you are fool enough to still be reading,  . . stick with me here . . .

So . . if you must run one engine . . . then  . . . . does that mean that you cannot run less than one engine where mathematically "one half" is less than "one" . . . .meaning that George Fields' half hemi in the comp coupe is not legal!  Otherwise one half would be equal to one.  (fuzzy math).

OK . . . I'll go away now . . . :-D

P.S.  Just kidding George
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Offline desotoman

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Re: Is it a V8 or a twin 4???
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2011, 05:36:26 PM »
production engines with multiple crankshafts, while rare, do exist.  Examples would be the Ariel Square Four and the Rotax 256 tandem 2 cylinder two stroke.  Other examples are the opposed piston designs where there are two cranks with the pistons meeting head to head to form a combustion chamber.  So . .  multiple cranks would not be a hard and fast rule for multi engine definition.  However those engines started out as one engine from their manufacturer.  
 . . . in the case (bad pun) of the "V8 Busa" the cylinders and heads are from two engines but there is only one crank.  That one might be in the gray area as to being one or two engines.  

However the special two litre engine(s) being built from two bike engines are IMHO "two engines."

Hummm . . . . . If you aren't allowed to run two engines in anything but streamliners (car and bike), Sidecar streamliners, and open (A) bikes.    . . . I guess that means -by definition- that all other classes must run only one engine.  

If you are fool enough to still be reading,  . . stick with me here . . .

So . . if you must run one engine . . . then  . . . . does that mean that you cannot run less than one engine where mathematically "one half" is less than "one" . . . .meaning that George Fields' half hemi in the comp coupe is not legal!  Otherwise one half would be equal to one.  (fuzzy math).

OK . . . I'll go away now . . . :-D

P.S.  Just kidding George


LOL. Is that like what is good for the Goose is good for the Gander. You bring up a good point.

Tom G.

PS. At least the Square 4 cranks are driven off each other and not an intermediate shaft.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 05:40:13 PM by desotoman »
Asking questions is one's only way of getting answers. As a young boy I was always taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. It suggests that the quest for knowledge includes failure, and that just because one person may know less than others they should not be afraid to ask rather than pretend they already know. In many cases multiple people may not know but are too afraid to ask the "stupid question"; the one who asks the question may in fact be doing a service to those around them.

Offline 55chevr

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Re: Is it a V8 or a twin 4???
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2011, 07:49:14 PM »
Single crankshaft makes it single engine ... the multiple crankshaft/single engine deal are bastard engine designs and not competitive  ... should someone get one competitive I would let SCTA rule on it when it happens ...

Offline panic

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Re: Is it a V8 or a twin 4???
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2011, 09:28:41 PM »
the multiple crankshaft/single engine deal are bastard engine designs and not competitive

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Offline Jasontmc

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Re: Is it a V8 or a twin 4???
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2011, 10:08:45 PM »
Single crankshaft makes it single engine ... the multiple crankshaft/single engine deal are bastard engine designs and not competitive  ... should someone get one competitive I would let SCTA rule on it when it happens ...

Just a hint: the 500cc production record and the 650cc a-g bike records are held by those "non competitive" twin crankshaft Suzuki RG500 engines!  Wait a minute I set one of those records in the 90's :-D

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Is it a V8 or a twin 4???
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2011, 10:35:21 PM »
Jason, I think that might have been Panic's point.... That one still stands doesn't it? Hope to see you on the salt.
 how are things up in the north, we got 16 inches of white stuff today and it has not quit yet. 
 :cheers:
Stainless
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MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.

Offline Jasontmc

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Re: Is it a V8 or a twin 4???
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2011, 12:11:36 AM »
Jason, I think that might have been Panic's point.... That one still stands doesn't it? Hope to see you on the salt.
 how are things up in the north, we got 16 inches of white stuff today and it has not quit yet. 
 :cheers:

Things are good Stainless. I will see you in August :-)  No snow here in canada. Sunny today down on the water.

Offline grumm441

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Re: Is it a V8 or a twin 4???
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2011, 04:19:44 AM »

Tom G.

PS. At least the Square 4 cranks are driven off each other and not an intermediate shaft.

Yamaha RZ500, two cranks driven off an intermediate shaft
Front cylinders carb into barrel
Rear cylinders carb into crankcase
Yep, bastard engine
G
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