Author Topic: Modified Pickup Question  (Read 14827 times)

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Offline Genuine GM

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Modified Pickup Question
« on: February 07, 2011, 03:52:59 PM »
I haven't posted in a while.  Life happened.  My teammate and I were originally going to run V4F/MR.  But after doing some real looking into the cost of to build a decent V4F, we decided to stick with what we know.  Mainly SBC.  Between us and some other friends we can build a 302 ci SBC for next to nothing, with really nice pieces no less.  But in going that route, we came up with some new things and recently a 1948 Chevy P/U has become available for next to nothing.  So we started looking in to D/MP.  Last night a couple of questions came up.

Let me say that I only have the 2009 Rule Book.  I am ordering a new one today.

1.  The rules for MP are very minimal within that sub class.  It states that MP also has to meet the requirements of Gas Coupe.  Those rules state that the following cannot be altered from factory location or year: frame, etc.  So, is it that simple?  Can I use a reproduction frame (if one exist).  I would have thought I could use a different frame, or make my own frame, especially considering this could be a 65 year old frame in a truck that was likely abused and ignored by the farmer that owned it.  With this rule, I would have to get a new frame as the one in the truck that is available has been clipped and "back-halved".

2.  If I have to use the original frame, do I have to use the original I-beam front suspension?  I know there is a '49 Studebaker truck (#898???, it was in Hot Rod magazine) that has a 4 link in the back, but I am not sure about the front end.  If you can change the front and rear suspension type and attachment, the frame changes would be extensive, so why the requirement for the original frame.

Hope this makes sense.  Basically to make this a viable option for us, we need to keep this in a slower class, preferably under 200mph, to keep it cheaper (cheap is a relative term).  D/MR is way fast and way fast equals more $$$$.

Thanks in advance.
 :cheers:
C. J. Daniel

Don’t let the troubles in your head, steal too much time, you’ll soon be dead - so play. You Never Know – DMB

Offline RichFox

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Re: Modified Pickup Question
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2011, 05:05:53 PM »
On my truck I am going with the assumption that while the original frame must be retained it may be extensively modified for it's intended purpose. I also assumed that the original Studebaker front axle and steering could and should be replaced. The good news for me is that if I ever finish it I probably won't have to worry about record certification anyway. Packard power and all. I'll be watching this thread with interest.

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Modified Pickup Question
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2011, 07:01:50 PM »
no takers  :-o
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

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Offline Genuine GM

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Re: Modified Pickup Question
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2011, 08:26:48 PM »
So is my question that good, or that dumb.... :?
Don’t let the troubles in your head, steal too much time, you’ll soon be dead - so play. You Never Know – DMB

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Modified Pickup Question
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2011, 09:20:14 PM »
That  :?  :? good I think
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline Genuine GM

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Re: Modified Pickup Question
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2011, 11:08:39 PM »
Originally, I had Modified Gas Roadster on the brain (any type frame allowed), so when I had the chance at the truck, I envisioned the 1968 Chevy SWB frame I have as a starting point.  Newer frame, trailing arms, factory IFS and a wider main rail arrangement making it easier to mount a cage.

It would seem to me that the frame should be the best/strongest design available, within each competitors budget, for safety reasons.  As long as the body panels and bumpers remain in the same relation to each other, the total frontal area and cd would remain the same, and that is the real hinderance or challenge to going fast.  Making an old brick cut through the wind as efficiently is possible. 

The frame just holds it all together.  In a spin-out, roll or other sudden stoppage, I would rather have something more modern than 2 C-shaped pieces of 63 year old steel, in a narrow ladder arrangement, supporting my cage.

Maybe I shouldn't worry about it, like RichFox said, it is highly unlikely I will ever be in the impound.  This is for fun and the experience, and while SCTA rules are the primary concern with this build, it will also see the Texas Mile and maybe one of the local 1/8th mile 'strips, after a 3rd member swap.

C. J.
Don’t let the troubles in your head, steal too much time, you’ll soon be dead - so play. You Never Know – DMB

Offline fastman614

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Re: Modified Pickup Question
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2011, 07:24:06 PM »
I am a tech inspector and a sometimes car builder. (My recent experience with cars has been dragster type chassis' and roll cages etc for the local stock car people. I have inspected many gas coupes and modified pickups over the years.

Having said that, I am, from a builder's perspective, going to give you something to think about. It says you must retain the stock frame in the stock location. It says NOTHING about what suspension- front or rear- that you may or may not run. I would be seriously looking at any of the Mustang II retrofit kits for the front end and your imagination and pocketbook are the only limits on the rear suspension. I would, in all likelihood, use a pretty much standard pair of parallel leaf springs- with either some hefty front half stacks (ala the old Chrysler "supertock" springs) or  what you can easily find and a pair of traction bars.   

Back to having to use the stock frame now..... if you have the ability to do so, build a "space" frame and then fit your stock frame and cross members through and into it and weld it into place .... or get a bit creative and bolt it to a lot of mounting tabs etc. The rules do not say that the stock frame has to be THE BACKBONE OF THE STRUCTURE..... OR anything but THAT IT HAS TO BE THERE! Determining the stock location would, in my mind, simply be at the points of body mounting to the original points on the frame..... 

If you want to get looking at a few of the really fast Gas Coupes/Sedans (the ones that can go 300 mph)... those cars have A LOT of extra tubing and shassis built into them.... they are unibody cars, yes, but.... if it is not a question of competitive advantage and to us, extra chassis it not exactly a secret to going faster unless it is put there as ballast (but ballast IS allowed!).... build your chassis with all of the modern tricks you can think of.

Geez, this is starting to sound like fun!.... where do you live in relation to me?.... I kind of like to BUILD that chassis!

Good luck and I hope I see you in tech!
No s*** sticks to the man wearing a teflon suit.

Offline Genuine GM

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Re: Modified Pickup Question
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2011, 08:16:54 PM »
Thanks for the answer. That was what I was looking for.

BTW, I live in Texas.  Heck of a drive for you.

C. J.
Don’t let the troubles in your head, steal too much time, you’ll soon be dead - so play. You Never Know – DMB

Offline fastman614

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Re: Modified Pickup Question
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2011, 05:07:27 PM »
Yes, it certainly would be a long drive.... I bought my Dodge diesel on ebay.... out of Dallas area.... I flew down to pick it up ..... and it was a 3000 mile drive home..... of course, though, I went over to SoCal and then up the west coast, which added several hundred miles to the trip.

Anyway, I am sitting in a hotel suite in a town called Sept-Iles.... in Quebec, Canada.... and I sure wish there was a Bonneville racer here that I could help with building a chassis on my days off..... I am advising and consulting to a company called CLIFFS Natural Resouces, a global producer of Iron ore pellets andmetallurgical coal and who is the owner of one of the iron ore processing complexes here in Sept-Iles. I will be here until late March.
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Offline RichFox

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Re: Modified Pickup Question
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2011, 05:28:38 PM »
Boy. If there was somebody hot to help build a modified Pickup around here, he wouldn't have to ask twice. Or barrow a C/CGAlt. Or even fool with an old Dodge banger OHV conversion. Jack grabs everybody who wants to help.

Offline Tman

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Re: Modified Pickup Question
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2011, 06:14:07 PM »
Boy. If there was somebody hot to help build a modified Pickup around here, he wouldn't have to ask twice. Or barrow a C/CGAlt. Or even fool with an old Dodge banger OHV conversion. Jack grabs everybody who wants to help.

Rich, you just tell me where to put the motor mounts in the lakester we [plan on playing woth more than one engine anyway! :cheers:

Offline Avanti Kid

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Re: Modified Pickup Question
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2011, 10:40:22 PM »
C. J. I'm on the Coupe Sedan rules committee for SCTA, from what you said you want to do on your truck sounds legal to me, and like you said safety if the object of improvements to a old frame.  You mentioned that the modified truck class is the same rules as Gas Coupe so sounds like you should have  good legal build for Bonneville or El Mirage.  take care, Dave  :roll:
Original owner of 1963 Avanti; Age 84
2006 Bonneville 200 MPH Club Member
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215.6 mph 289 CI Studebaker engine

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Modified Pickup Question
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2011, 10:28:49 AM »
Fast, that's interesting.  Cliffs is headquartered here -- Marquette county, Michigan.  Cliffs is in Ishpeming and has been the largest employer in the area for oh, 150 years or so.  What are you doing up there?  Making pellets?  Or is Sept-Isle a natural ore plant?  Just curious. . .
Jon E. Wennerberg
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Offline fastman614

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Re: Modified Pickup Question
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2011, 08:57:23 PM »
Slim... I work for a company called Metso (Minerals Div) ... Metso is an OEM supplier of crushers, ball mills etc. I am a field service engineering technician. I am at the Cliffs Sept-Iles plant overseeing the rebuild of one of their ball mills (of which they have 9).... the operation here is an iron ore pellet processing plant. The mine itself is about 400 miles away.... the ore is transported by railroad.... and Sept-Iles is a city of about 30,000 pop. and on a harbor in the Gulf Of St Lawrence. They load the ships directly here .... the loading facility is about 2000 feet from the site field office. I can't quite see them loading the ships but I can sometimes hear it.
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Offline zenndog

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Re: Modified Pickup Question
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2011, 03:59:35 AM »
In modified pickup would a three inch chop be legal with the a pillar leaned back around an inch?