frameless window rules

[Tman]

Why don't you ask your question on www.scta-bni.org?

DW

Not complaining here Dan, just making an observation as a newcomer/younger guy. We are so used to online resources and instant answers to our questions that the SCTA website seems archaic and slow. As noted by others email responses about specific questions sometimes take a long time. The SCTA could do well hiring a true web pro like Ryan Cochran (Atomic Industries/HAMB/JalopyJournal) to setup a site and basic forum for questions. Not something to replace Jons fine forum here, but a technical page that you would have to be a registered racer/BNI payed applicant etc to access. The various Tech people and committees would be able to answer these questions in a controlled environment.

[gearheadeh]

Why don't you ask your question on www.scta-bni.org?

DW

Not complaining here Dan, just making an observation as a newcomer/younger guy. We are so used to online resources and instant answers to our questions that the SCTA website seems archaic and slow. As noted by others email responses about specific questions sometimes take a long time. The SCTA could do well hiring a true web pro like Ryan Cochran (Atomic Industries/HAMB/JalopyJournal) to setup a site and basic forum for questions. Not something to replace Jons fine forum here, but a technical page that you would have to be a registered racer/BNI payed applicant etc to access. The various Tech people and committees would be able to answer these questions in a controlled environment.

Great idea! Sure save in the long run, as Iam sure there are a basic core of questions asked over and over and over..........

[Glen]

There are a lot of people that have been involved with LSR (SCTA/BNI) for many years. There are several racing venues that use this site as a guide line. Each has it's own rules. Dan, JD, Myself and a couple of others try to assist where we can for SCTA. The other venues do the same. Directing you to the correct one is important that questions be handled by each venue.
Quotes by Dan are from the new rules this year and he is only trying to assure that we understand them.  There are times when the wording has to be changed after the rule book is printed. It is posted on the SCTA web site and on landracing.com as a courtesy to the racer.

Don't stop asking the questions as all of us need to know the answers, just direct them to the proper venue.
 

[Milwaukee Midget]

Glen -

I don't want to come across as mean, but asking questions of, and getting responses from SCTA-BNI has become, for me anyway, a long, drawn-out process of being bumped around from official to official, emails "falling through the cracks", and a general lack of promptness.

Sending a request via the website has proven itself to be a fools errand.

Now don't get me wrong, I KNOW it's a volunteer organization.  I've been involved in such organizations in different fields, and I imagine the question load can be oppressive.  Additionally, I'm new to this "building a race car" thing, so I try to do my homework and suss out as much information as possible ahead of time in order to ask intelligent questions and make reasonable requests that won't waste anybody's time.

I recently directed a request for an approval that went unanswered for better than 5 months.  I was told an e-mail would be sent to put in my log book at inspection.  I've followed through with e-mails and phone calls - I'm still waiting.

I currently have a question regarding the new lateral restraints that has gone unanswered.  Given some of the stories I've seen here regarding the last Elmo meet, I'm probably not the only one.

I'm torn between being a pest and respecting the member's time, but the racing season is upon us, and I'm not getting the responses I need to move forward.

Maybe it's easier on the coast - monthly face time at Elmo has to account for something - but this new BNI member sure feels stranded in the heartland.

Can I get a witness?

[38flattie]

Well, everyone knows I'm new to this, but I've had good luck getting answers to all my questions. Even though I sometimes call and chat about the question, I always follow up with an email, and get the clarification in writing.

DW pointed me to to chairperson early on. The chairperson gave me the contacts for the committee people I would need. I've asked for about 20 clarifications, and received answers for all of them. Some have been within hours, some took two weeks, but again, all have been clarified.

The rule book can be  tough for a new guy , I know. Everyone has been great on getting me answers, even though I know they must be tired of my inquiries!

[Milwaukee Midget]

The reason I brought it up here is because my questions of late have been regarding new or newer rules - similar to the new window rule.

In the past, I simply contacted the persons directly, with mixed results. 

Dan, is the "Rule Change Procedure" link the one you are referring to?  I never wanted to change a rule, so I never went there.

[38flattie]

Chris, it may be that the people or committees that you have to go through are busier than the vintage folks? Not sure, but the vintage guys have been great!

[dw230]

Chris,

There is a Rule Change and Rule Clarification form on the same page.

www.scta-bni.org, front page, left column, about the third button down, scroll to bottom of pafe.

Please PM me with the contact you have been trying to work with and I'll see if I can move this along.

DW

[Bob Drury]

   For the umpteenth time, I want to remind everyone how great it is to have Dan, Nathan, Glen and other SCTA and BNI veterans help us all out with their responses, research and patience in dealing with the newbies, and yes us oldbies (?) too.
  Rule books are what we are governed by and I am glad I don't have the thankless job of trying to make any rule that is "all class" inclusive.
  That said, errors and misunderstandings happen, as do cloudy explaination's.
  This site is what gives us all a chance to digest and attempt to clarify these rules.
  For that we owe a debt of gratitude (and cash!) to Jon Amo and SSS, alias Jon W.
                                                                            Bob

[Tman]

  For the umpteenth time, I want to remind everyone how great it is to have Dan, Nathan, Glen and other SCTA and BNI veterans help us all out with their responses, research and patience in dealing with the newbies, and yes us oldbies (?) too.
  Rule books are what we are governed by and I am glad I don't have the thankless job of trying to make any rule that is "all class" inclusive.
  That said, errors and misunderstandings happen, as do cloudy explaination's.
  This site is what gives us all a chance to digest and attempt to clarify these rules.
  For that we owe a debt of gratitude (and cash!) to Jon Amo and SSS, alias Jon W.
                                                                            Bob

Yes! Those 3 have aready helped a TON and I have yet to cut any steel on our car!

[Milwaukee Midget]

Bob, Tman - I couldn't agree more.  Dan, Nate, Glen - crème de la crème.

Dan - I'll be in touch - expect a PM.

And yes - the forum has stopped me from making some catastrophic decisions, and stopped me from asking questions that might be a waste of time for someone.  Due diligence can be fairly well obtained within the search function here.  It's not the last word, but it will definitely shed light on important issues with respect to LSR.  Thanks, Jon, for making this go.

I didn't want this to come off as a whiny criticism - these folks have lives, too, and as widespread as this sport has become in recent years, it's got to be tough to field and keep track of all the inquires they receive, work their day jobs, maintain a family, AND go racing.  Believe me when I say, I completely understand how non-response occurs - I'm certain it's not malicious - and I'm certain that they ARE busy.  I raise my glass to the volunteers who make this sport possible.

I intend to remain polite and respectful, but WOS is right around the corner, and I WILL be ratcheting up the persistence.

And I apologize for this hijack.  Let's talk windows - I've got two more to build, and I'm curious as to how this discussion will turn out.

[Avanti Kid]

I'm also upset with the side windows change for 2012.  In the last 5 years as being one of the 3 timers for Speed Week and 2 race courses for World Finals, If only seen one car ( I think a Corvette) blow out a side window which caused us one hour of down time trying to clean the tempered glass off the course. I don't want to have to change my side windows on my Avanti for a rule change that doesn't happen that often, I feel its a bad rule, but majority wins in the vote we do in the different rules committees (I'm on the Coupe/Sedan rule committee) each year. Maybe they will reconsider this rule change, Dave 

[Stainless1]

Got to disagree with you AK, any preventable delay is a bad delay, especially if you are one of the next several guys in line that has been suited up and in the car for 10-20 minutes already.  I think there is also an issue with spins induced by the out of balance aero caused by window loss, not to mention all those folks out there picking up little chunks of glass. 
Of course my tune might be different is either of mine had windows...

[Steve Walters]

I'm finding out that the side windows, is a lot harder to change to Lexan than I thought.  My side windows curve, couldn't get the 3/16" lexan to form to the glass, trying to build a frame now to make it curve.  Probably going to have to use 1/8".  haven't yet started to engineer the rear side glass.

Steve 

 

[64avanti]

Dave,

Since they have not defined "frameless" and our side windows do have a frame around the glass on two sides and the third side fits into a channel I think we could argue that our cars do not have frameless side windows.

More importantly why would having frameless side windows require you to change all of the windows that are not laminated?  The style of the side window has no impact on the rear window!