Rear Wing vs Rear Spoiler

[SPARKY]

for top speed---weight not a wing

[Dynoroom]

I am at work so I cant post photos right now. But I am looking at a couple of ideas and I don't know which is better.

If you look at my car photos now it has a rear trunk spoiler. I believe that one is rated to about 160mph but creates less downforce than the APR GT 300 Wing - http://www.aprperformance.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=35&Itemid=44

They also have this drag wing which says 125 + with no limit - http://www.aprperformance.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=51&Itemid=44

but I have also found this - http://www.200mphplus.com/index.php/products/wing/

Really what I need is a wing that is good from about 65mph to 200mph (my target and final goal of breaking) What I don't know is which one is the better choice unless you guys know someone that can custom make a wing that suits my needs?

We've tried to help but you're not listening........     

Wait for it.............

Wait............

Weight!

For what you want to do any spoiler or wing will add drag along with the downforce you are looking for. If you want to run 200 try to do it without inducing more of what you don't want. 
 

[SaltRat]

Hahahahaha, we gave him the answer for LSR.  He's asking about wings, not LSR!

Its human nature to get a little deaf . . . I can't hear anything that doesn't start with "Ford . . ." even though that isn't the right answer.

What's the old prayer?  Lord, don't let me get old before I get wise . . .

I just hope I have the sense to consider the source when someone gives me advice!

Respectfully,

too many fords, too old and too stubborn.

[dw230]

John,

"production cars which had the wing as an option"

Inferes taht the production class car would need a production wing, i.e. as it came from the showroom floor.

Send in a suggestion, www.scta-bni.org

DW

[dw230]

You will have to run your Mazda to test which wing you want to use. When you run at Texas it will be much more different than at the salt.

DW

[jl222]

John,

"production cars which had the wing as an option"

Inferes taht the production class car would need a production wing, i.e. as it came from the showroom floor.

Send in a suggestion, www.scta-bni.org

DW

  Yea Dan I agree with you as far as running in Production class, but doesn't every class in the rule book [besides special
construction] have to be a production body?

                  JL222

[dw230]

John,

The rules are split into the 5 categories with sub classes. There are specific rules written for categories, such as Production Category which apply to all classes in the category.

You read the rules for your category, Modified in your case, then the rules for your class, Altered.
A rule such as the wing specific being discussed referes to Special Construction, Diesl Truck and Production categories.

DW

[jacksoni]

Doc- my car makes same power (235 at wheels) at similar RPM (9600), not  much low end torque. Though I made two changes in 09,  cold air intake added, and took off the factory stock spoiler/wing off got me 6 mph. 2 liter NA engine pushing a 87 Firebird (went 170+). The cold air helped some but I saw a change at Maxton before Bonneville that proved the wing was part of that 6mph. Until you have a traction problem, run without the wing. Any lift or down force it generates causes drag and you will go slower( and if it lifts might go sideways more than you like. When you have power that exceeds traction/aero drag (and therefore have wheel spin) and therefore are likely to spinout; you will go faster without.  Adding weight helps the mechanical traction but does cause slight increase in rolling resistance and therefore drag but is much smaller than the aero penalty of wings and things. However, until you go over 175 in the quarter ( the 2.25 mile timing trap) you are still, especially with a small engine car, in a bit of a drag race so acceleration is affected by weight and is therefore also a small penalty. You want gears/power/aero etc to all be pretty much peaked when you pass the 2mile marker so you accelerate very slowly mph or two over the mile.  If you are not peaking until later you won't reach your maximum speed.  When you get to bigger numbers, wings, spoilers, side plates and weight all may be needed to keep you pointed right way and not overpowering the tires.  Weight in the a$$ end of the car is not nice from an aero stability stand point but as long as you keep it pointed right way is fine. There are threads here about this. Lots of opinions. You start somewhere and work up to it. I'd start no wing and see how you do. Might fall in love with salt flat racing and be hooked like all of us here. Might say not your cup of tea and only go once in which case $$$ on spoiler is wasted. Besides you have huge work to do to turn your track car into and LSR car to start with.  Sorry to tell you, bet many $$$ your cage is not legal. (it's .093 wall isn't it?)

[jl222]

John,

The rules are split into the 5 categories with sub classes. There are specific rules written for categories, such as Production Category which apply to all classes in the category.

You read the rules for your category, Modified in your case, then the rules for your class, Altered.
A rule such as the wing specific being discussed referes to Special Construction, Diesl Truck and Production categories.

DW

  Dan... The rule book says production bodies [not production category] and I don't see any thing about wings allowed
in altered class. BUT I see plenty of cars with wings in altered.

                JL222

[dw230]

John an OEM wing, if available for the car used, can be transferred to the Altered class. A car that came with no wing cannot used a fabricated wing.

Remember that your log book tells us what body & model you are using.

DW

[jl222]

Doc- my car makes same power (235 at wheels) at similar RPM (9600), not  much low end torque. Though I made two changes in 09,  cold air intake added, and took off the factory stock spoiler/wing off got me 6 mph. 2 liter NA engine pushing a 87 Firebird (went 170+). The cold air helped some but I saw a change at Maxton before Bonneville that proved the wing was part of that 6mph. Until you have a traction problem, run without the wing. Any lift or down force it generates causes drag and you will go slower( and if it lifts might go sideways more than you like. When you have power that exceeds traction/aero drag (and therefore have wheel spin) and therefore are likely to spinout; you will go faster without.  Adding weight helps the mechanical traction but does cause slight increase in rolling resistance and therefore drag but is much smaller than the aero penalty of wings and things. However, until you go over 175 in the quarter ( the 2.25 mile timing trap) you are still, especially with a small engine car, in a bit of a drag race so acceleration is affected by weight and is therefore also a small penalty. You want gears/power/aero etc to all be pretty much peaked when you pass the 2mile marker so you accelerate very slowly mph or two over the mile.  If you are not peaking until later you won't reach your maximum speed.  When you get to bigger numbers, wings, spoilers, side plates and weight all may be needed to keep you pointed right way and not overpowering the tires.  Weight in the a$$ end of the car is not nice from an aero stability stand point but as long as you keep it pointed right way is fine. There are threads here about this. Lots of opinions. You start somewhere and work up to it. I'd start no wing and see how you do. Might fall in love with salt flat racing and be hooked like all of us here. Might say not your cup of tea and only go once in which case $$$ on spoiler is wasted. Besides you have huge work to do to turn your track car into and LSR car to start with.  Sorry to tell you, bet many $$$ your cage is not legal. (it's .093 wall isn't it?)

  Doc..pg 24 Roll cages....All deviations to roll structure rules shall be submitted to the contest board 45 days prior to the event
for approval.

    If you have engineering specs it helps.

                     JL222

[DocBeech]

6 point 1.750 x .120 DOM steel??

[jacksoni]

6 point 1.750 x .120 DOM steel??

Ahhh, looks like I lose my bet and I am glad.  Regardless of diameter, needs to be .120 wall (unless you are under 175 AND in the G or lower categories)- this direct from the horse's mouth, Chief Inspector Kiwi Steve Davies. Don't know about faster category NHRA and similar but most road race stuff and rules I have seen are .093 or less. Glad yours is above that. Might still send photos to Steve for opinion in case they want additional bracing etc.

Not sure your displacement, what engine class are you running? (Rotary right?)=Opps, just looked at your rotary engine post so you are running F/GT or MS.

[DocBeech]

1.3L penalized out to 2.6L lol. I can deal with that much more than what it was before though. Yes I used an autopower NHRA/SCCA certified cage which is thicker than the SCCA only certified one. I ran into that issue with my mustang some time ago is where I learned my lesson. I had an SCCA cage in the mustang and failed an NHRA inspection from it. I will only ever be burned once on something thats a minimum of a grand to install lol.

[robfrey]

Probably no wing and no spoiler will be fastest. At your power lever, you will probably not have to add any weight. If you do have to add weight, please add to front also. Welcome to the LSR community, the nicest bunch of racers you will ever meet.
As a former road racing enthusiast, be careful of getting hooked on the salt. There is something intriguing about doing stuff that hasn't been done before and the engineering challenge of it all.