Rear Wing vs Rear Spoiler

[jl222]

Sounds like your car isn't set up very well.  How much Hp are you putting down?

 Sedans and coupes get light at speed [especially if they are kept as light as posible for roadracing] and
the lightness shows up fast when trying to corner.
 This was proven by Jim Hall and Chaparral racing at the track I was jokingly going to ask if he ran there,
 RATTELSNAKE raceway, and the spoiler was shown to solve the problem. Not only high speed stabilization but more downforce led to faster cornering. And then they developed the variable spoiler, up for corners and down for straights. Maybe will catch up to them someday.
 Is this the same Chaparral Rattelsnake track?


                      JL222

[jl222]

You need to be careful not to assume any part available from an OEM dealer will automatically be accepted by SCTA. Body kits and swoopy IMSA panels, even though they have an OEM part number, are usually not allowed . . . even with 500 unit production and homogulation. A Classic example (pun intended) is the 75-80 Chevy Monza. Chevy wanted to make a presence in road racing so they subcontracted development of a complete body kit converting the car into a Mirage. All parts available from a dealer with a GM part number and SCCA approval. While approved by other organizations they are disallowed by SCTA.  

If you want to stay in Production or Gas class make sure the wing is approved ahead of time. The links you provided above would disqualify the car in those two classes.

  It seems unclear to me where it says in the rule book that wings must be a factory wing. What page? Production yea but gas coupe are altered?
 Also it doesn't say you can't have a wing and spoiler were spoilers are allowed
 And as DW says about adding spoiler fins show me


                  JL222

                         

             

[Saltfever]

I did not include Altereds. Only Gas and Production. Page, 66, 5.D.3."Gas coupes may not be altered in height, width, length, or contour. All body pannels (does that mean "wing"?) shall be mounted in the original relationship to each other". The links provided by Doc show wings all exceeding stock dimensions and different contours from stock. Air dams are allowed but not much else. The gas class is fairly strict. I only suggested to check first . . . don't assume.

[DocBeech]

The APR was developed with mazdaspeed also known as mazda motor sports. APR builds it Mazda designed it. All three that I showed later on were avialble from dealership. The mazdaspeed wing was altered to the GT 300 APR Contour wing. Through mazda motor sports. I know they sold well over 500 of them. It helps my car a great amount. Improved speed and track times immensely. I can hold corners at 10-15mph faster, and I can get upto speed about 150 yards faster on some tracks. I am putting just a little bit over stock to the ground at 235HP, its a rotary so torque is very low, but at 9800 RPM who cares:P

My setup is rated as 2nd best setup on a car under 100,000 dollars. Its a 50/50 weight ratio, but I do have a problem with the steering. Its too loose at 16.6:1, I am still working on a way to run a 14.6:1. The steering is an electric steering box with a cpu controlling it at different speeds. I have tighter sway bars front and rear, I also have front and rear strut bars. All of which are stock. Mazda designed the rear sway bar to hold the spare tire. It came factory. The front strut bar also came factory under the engine cover. The sway bars are the R3 mazda speed where they changed the spring rates to increase performance. Everything I have is stock factory though. Nothing is aftermarket or not an option that wasnt dealer offered.

Yes thats the rattlesnake raceway you are thinking of.

[SPARKY]

Dealer installed wing---I doubt if it will fly

[Dynoroom]

So, are you going to run any LSR vinues?

At your hp and speed level "I" would not likely run a wing or spoiler........   in LSR.
If you're not "up to speed" on why do a search. 

[Jonny Hotnuts]

Dealer installed wing---I doubt if it will fly

+1

My personal vehicle is a supercharged Toyota Tundra.
Its a TRD supercharger, purchased at Toyota (*I installed it myself) in most cases installed by the dealer and even maintains the factory warranty.

It will, and is documented that it soundly beat a SRT-10 Viper Ram Truck (considered worlds fastest production).

Because it was a dealer option and never sold as a "sticker option" it doesnt count.

I'd be willing to bet that unless you could buy the car with the wing installed BY THE FACTORY, off the showroom floor it will be a no go.

~JH

[jl222]

I did not include Altereds. Only Gas and Production. Page, 66, 5.D.3."Gas coupes may not be altered in height, width, length, or contour. All body pannels (does that mean "wing"?) shall be mounted in the original relationship to each other". The links provided by Doc show wings all exceeding stock dimensions and different contours from stock. Air dams are allowed but not much else. The gas class is fairly strict. I only suggested to check first . . . don't assume.

  Wings pg 45  Last sentence '' for classification purposes,the wing is not considered as part of the body''.
  You said ''gas'' not gas coupe. There are several gas classes.

                    JL222

[dw230]

Doc,

You should be aware that your experience with running asphalt road tracks is not directly relatable to the salt.

DW

[Saltfever]

 Wings pg 45  Last sentence '' for classification purposes,the wing is not considered as part of the body''.
  You said ''gas'' not gas coupe. There are several gas classes.   JL222

See same paragraph and the sentence before your quote . "Wings . . . allowed ONLY on Streamliners, Lakesters, Modified Roadsters and production bodies which had the wing as an option." No mention of any gas class and no permission to have a wing size or shape different than the original. None of the wings Doc linked to meet the intent of this paragraph. All I am saying is get permission first don't be a disappointed "saltcat".  

[jl222]

 Wings pg 45  Last sentence '' for classification purposes,the wing is not considered as part of the body''.
  You said ''gas'' not gas coupe. There are several gas classes.   JL222

See same paragraph and the sentence before your quote . "Wings . . . allowed ONLY on Streamliners, Lakesters, Modified Roadsters and production bodies which had the wing as an option." No mention of any gas class and no permission to have a wing size or shape different than the original. None of the wings Doc linked to meet the intent of this paragraph. All I am saying is get permission first don't be a disappointed "saltcat".  

  Saltfever ...your the one mentioning gas, and it doesn't say anything about must have original type wing.  If SCTA has an
intention make it clear, such as [ no other wing type allowed other than factory available]
  And as DW said about the spoiler fins, the rules don't say you can't have them.

                     JL222

[jl222]

  Doc... looks like you have a wing and a spoiler [ cool ]

  Probably with your hp the speed will be what [170]? so maybe the stock spoiler is enough. If you already have
a wing bring it just in case.
 The trouble with LSR there is not a lot of us doing it with a certain car and hard to compare times as in road racing. I would pick the adjustable wing, if it didn't have to much drag, and take Saltfevers advice about asking
before buying. But maybe I have givin you some ammo
  I know SCTA rewrote their spoiler rules after we set a record with the 222 car because the rules didn't say
we couldn't do what we did. I think DW said something about the wing definitions being reworded also?

   Good luck JL222

[dw230]

"... production bodies which had the wing as an option."

How can you interpet this part of sentence to say you can use any wing and not the OEM wing?

DW

[jl222]

"... production bodies which had the wing as an option."

How can you interpet this part of sentence to say you can use any wing and not the OEM wing?

DW

  Because '' wings are not considered part of the body'' and it doesn't say any thing about ''original wings''

                                 JL222

[DocBeech]

I have two production wings in my possession. Both of which are options from the factory. So they meet your rule. My initial question was never answered though. Which is better for my speed. Yes the vehicle tops out after about 170. As of yet I plan to improve that later on. What I need to know is which one would be better for land speed record setting.

I own both the mazdaspeed, and the rear lip spoiler. Both are functional. I plan on buying the APR GT300 Contour wing which is also designed by mazdaspeed. But no one answered my question on which one serves a better function at high speed. I understand I have no salt practice and that my road racing will be different. A lot of things I do are different. Road racing, to track racing, AutoX, to racers ranch. Some of them you have to deal with dirt on the track, others are perfectly clean. Some of them you end up in less than desirable conditions like mud. But I want to know for top speed which is better. There really aren't any long straight aways on the track. Texas motor speedway I have to use fins to because of the way ovals work. So I can't really test there.