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Author Topic: Hayabusa fuel system.  (Read 9464 times)
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bharmon77
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« on: December 08, 2010, 04:39:44 PM »

For my Hayabusa powered lakester I am planning -8 fuel lines from the tank through the filters, pump, shut off valve and regulator to a "Y" block that will feed the stock fuel rail with (2) -6 lines into (2) fuel rail adapters. Is this an over kill for the fuel line size? The pump I was planning is an Aeromotive A1000 as well as an A1000 fuel pressure regulator. I have read in this forum that you can under estimate the fuel supply requirements for land speed racing especially at Bonneville. Obviously I can reduce the cost of the fuel system with -6 all the way, but I did not want to have to do it twice. The car will be run with and without a turbocharger.
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Chris Horoho
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« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2010, 04:45:29 PM »

I dont see why it would be a problem
I usually run -6 on my busas
The injectors would be a bigger worry as to size needed and the tune itself or controller?
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RansomT
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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2010, 06:49:10 PM »

The turbo Busa guys can chime in on this, but you can build a turbo Busa that will out run -6 fuel lines.
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Chris Horoho
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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2010, 06:58:48 PM »

The turbo Busa guys can chime in on this, but you can build a turbo Busa that will out run -6 fuel lines.
i know quite a few builds in the good amount of power using just -6

yes over kill isnt bad but the output of my 700hp efi aeromotive is just -6
and itll make 500 on a boosted application but dont get me wrong more fuel is always better

if going for 600+ then yes id use -8

but again the injectors will limit your hp also
« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 08:01:45 PM by Chris Horoho » Logged

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Chris Horoho
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2010, 07:56:01 PM »

the following info I got from another site (evo site) and seems to be about what ive seen from different builds (give or take a bit)

"Here are some guidlines for EFI setups. The numbers don't apply for carb'd cars running fuel pressures of 4-10 psi or so, which require larger lines for the same HP figures.

-6 (3/8") fuel line is good for 500-550 HP or so on the outlet side of the pump, but you want -8 (1/2") for the suction side

-8 (1/2") fuel line is good for around 900-1000 HP on the outlet side of the pump, but you want -10 (5/8") for the suction side
Read more at http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-engine-turbo-drivetrain/178003-tech-info-fuel-line-sizing-fuel-pump-flow.html?ktrack=kcplink "
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RichFox
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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2010, 09:04:49 PM »

I believe that looking at Ricks engine he had added a second set of injectiors to the throttle bodies. Not the first time I have seen that. A little over my head but seems like a good way to get lots of fuel where you need it.
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Chris Horoho
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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2010, 09:22:39 PM »

gen 1 or gen 2?
the gen 2 setup has 2 sets of injectors
the gen1 has 1 set
they do offer drop in injectors in 1000cc and 2000cc for the gen 1 (high imp.)
so getting the injectors big enough isnt truly a problem as long as you know what you want HP wise
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RichFox
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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2010, 03:23:26 AM »

They appeared to have been welded to provide material for the boss. Opposite the original boss. I think I remember the same thing on Andy Flagg's Nissan
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Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2010, 10:20:23 AM »

Remember that in a boosted set up you need to reference the regulator to the manifold pressure so that the differential pressure across the injector remains constant. i.e. if you tune for 45 psi fuel pressure and run 30 psi manifold pressure the fuel pressure needs to be 75 psi and you need to check to make sure that your selected fuel pump will put out enough flow at 75 psi to make the hp you are looking to make. I would also suggest that you make the flow "line" look like: Fuel tank to suction filter (filter should be rated at 2-3 times the max flow rate of the pump and should be stainless screen type, 60 to 100 micron with at least -10 or -12 connections) then thru fuel pump to a 10 micron filter then to the injector fuel rail(s) and then to the pressure regulator, with it's return line routed back to the tank. With the regulator at the end of the fuel rail there will always be fuel under pressure at the injector inlet, if you have it before the fuel rail there is always a chance of an air pocket in the fuel rail that will eventually go away but it can cause problems at start up and early running. Also size plumbing over size and the pump and regulator so that they are working in about the middle of their operating range. Cheap insurance.

Rex
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RansomT
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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2010, 12:47:38 PM »

the following info I got from another site (evo site) and seems to be about what ive seen from different builds (give or take a bit)

"Here are some guidlines for EFI setups. The numbers don't apply for carb'd cars running fuel pressures of 4-10 psi or so, which require larger lines for the same HP figures.

-6 (3/8") fuel line is good for 500-550 HP or so on the outlet side of the pump, but you want -8 (1/2") for the suction side

-8 (1/2") fuel line is good for around 900-1000 HP on the outlet side of the pump, but you want -10 (5/8") for the suction side
Read more at http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-engine-turbo-drivetrain/178003-tech-info-fuel-line-sizing-fuel-pump-flow.html?ktrack=kcplink "

I agree with those sizings.  It's just that I've seen too many folks "tune around" inadequate fuels lines, just to have it all go south on a run. 
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Chris Horoho
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2010, 05:34:29 PM »

the following info I got from another site (evo site) and seems to be about what ive seen from different builds (give or take a bit)

"Here are some guidlines for EFI setups. The numbers don't apply for carb'd cars running fuel pressures of 4-10 psi or so, which require larger lines for the same HP figures.

-6 (3/8") fuel line is good for 500-550 HP or so on the outlet side of the pump, but you want -8 (1/2") for the suction side

-8 (1/2") fuel line is good for around 900-1000 HP on the outlet side of the pump, but you want -10 (5/8") for the suction side
Read more at http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-engine-turbo-drivetrain/178003-tech-info-fuel-line-sizing-fuel-pump-flow.html?ktrack=kcplink "

I agree with those sizings.  It's just that I've seen too many folks "tune around" inadequate fuels lines, just to have it all go south on a run. 
oh yes i do see that possibility and have seen where some run 5/16 line on setups not 3/8 and i wouldnt ever run that as the price difference isnt worth the cheep insurance for a middle of the ground build
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Chris Horoho
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2010, 05:58:58 PM »

They appeared to have been welded to provide material for the boss. Opposite the original boss. I think I remember the same thing on Andy Flagg's Nissan
on boosted application?
ya its common on turbo bikes to run a secondary system
but if you have access to a fair priced ECU the secondary systems arent needed (yes i have a very good priced ECU (standalone) that i will be using)
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Jonny Hotnuts
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2010, 07:22:52 PM »

The A1k is more pump then you need. The Bosch 044 draws less current, flows more on the top and cost 1/3 of the Aeromotive (and dead to rights reliable). If you consider the 044 make sure you buy it from a reputable dealer as China fakes are out there (*ebay).

If you ever need more HP potential you can gang 2-044 pumps to increase the output to over 1200 hp. 2-044 cost less then (1) A1000.

The A1000 does look prettier however.

~JH
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jonny_hotnuts@hotmail.com

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DanBadger
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« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2010, 12:12:49 PM »

On our first-gen build, we are running the 034 Motorsports secondary injection system, spraying a set of EV1 injectors down through the plenum.  The primary injectors are Honda S2000.
All suction hoses are -8, as are the lines through the filter and to the Y block.  At the Y, two -6 lines run to the two fuel rails.  -6 runs back out of the rails and to the regulator, and then returns to the tank.



-8 out of tank



Secondary injectors installation






Here is a quick MS Paint sketch of how we did things:
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Jonny Hotnuts
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« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2010, 06:50:26 PM »

Quote
we are running the 034 Motorsports

If I am not mistaken the 034MS and 044 is the same pump.


BTW:

There is nothing wrong with the fuel setup you have however you can also come out of the fuel filter to the bottom rail (in), bottom rail (out) to the top rail (in) and then go top rail (out) to a single in regulator and back to the tank. This will eliminate the Y block and the need for a multi input regulator.

Not knocking....just different.

~JH
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jonny_hotnuts@hotmail.com

"Sometimes it is impossible to deal with her, but most of the time she is very sweet, and if you caress her properly she will sing beautifully."
*Andres Segovia
(when Im not working on the car, I am ususally playing classical guitar)
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