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Author Topic: Nitrous 250cc 4-stroke Motorcycle Shoot-out  (Read 10979 times)
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wfojohn
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« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2010, 05:56:26 PM »

The new 250 Honda is a good looking bike and fuel injection would be great but my guess is that the Kawi being a twin would have more performance potential than a single. Again, that is just my first thoughts.
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racer x
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« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2010, 07:21:40 PM »

Mine thoughts also . BUT the single is the fastest so far.
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dr j
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« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2010, 10:55:48 PM »

Well the Maxton October Nitrous 250 Shootout was held under gorgeous weather conditions of sunny, cool air, and some tailwinds.  Unfortunately the nitrous bottles don’t exactly like cold temperatures if you want the bottle pressure to actually push out some nitrous to join the extra fuel you are adding.  We had all three of the expected 250s show up.  Eric (Dark Horse Racing) and I (Moto Madcap) both made it through Tech Inspection Friday afternoon without any defects found.  Since the September meet Eric had rebuilt his engine and clutch and added a new methanol tank to go with the NOS as well as a gorgeous new much more streamlined aluminum custom gas tank.  I had repaired my exhaust pipe and added a bottle heater for the NOS. 
Then we went out to dinner together and spoke eloquently about all the amazing merits of our bikes and just how fast they would be on Saturday wink  Meanwhile Ali (RnR Cycles) was working feverishly in his shop all through the night to get his Kawasaki Ninja 250 built with a Nitrous system installed.
Saturday dawned cold and clear with a mild headwind.  I decided to wait for the afternoon’s warmth and expected mild tailwind.  That way my bottle heater would not have to fight the 45deg cold and the engine would not have to fight the headwind.  Eric tried to fire up his bike in the morning but it refused.  Then we switched it to my DocZ roller starter and found out his Ninja also did not want to change into 2nd gear, like something was jammed inside.  So Eric pulled his carbs apart and found something amiss inside.  He had just finished rebuilding his engine from last month so he is very familiar with how it looks inside.  But it still would not shift, so he pulls his engine completely out of the bike and puts it in the back of his van.  There he splits the cases and carefully inspects the clutch and tranny. He finds some small pieces of metal, probably part of last month’s piston, one of which was jammed in the gears.  So once that is cleaned up he reassembles everything.  He eventually gets it fired up in time to make a run in the afternoon!
Meanwhile I work my way up to the line.  Because of my inefficient mounting the bottle heater can only get the pressure up to 800psi.  I make a run with the engine sounding happy, firing the nitrous just before the ¾ mile mark and I put down a 125.1mph speed on my prior record of 108 in the APS/BF-250/4 class. 
Eric finally gets to run his yellow Ninja at about 5pm.  But on the run he said the engine kept feeling like the clutch was acting up.  Then when he fired his new methanol/NOS it made a bang heard even in the pits.  He said he had been up to 108mph then coasted through the trap at 91.  The highs and lows of Nitrous. 
Now finally Ali shows up with a new nitrous system on his old Ninja250 which he has also lowered both in the front and rear.  He gets through tech inspection and rolls up to the waiting line but to no avail.  Track is shut down for the night with both Ali and myself almost to the front of the line. 
Sunday morning Ali makes his 1st run which he says is a shakedown to make sure the chassis is good and stable.  It is and he briefly fires his nitrous with low pressure in the bottle and goes 117.4mph.  An hour later he and I go again 3 runs apart.  I have my fastest time of the meet at 125.5mph!  Ali then goes through with pulsed Nitrous firing this time in 5th and 6th gear and goes through with new record of 122.0mph!  This beat the MPS/F-250/4 class record of 119.  Later in the day he did several more runs with his best increasing the record to 122.4mph. 
So the Maxton Nitrous 250 Shootout came to a close with me retaining the title of Fastest 250/4 though I did not beat my track record of 126.6 set last month.  Congratulations to Ali as he now has wrested the Worlds Fastest Ninja 250 crown from Eric. 
I need to say kudos to Becca and Dan of Chicago Vintage Racing for bringing an absolutely gorgeous 1954 BMW R25/3 250cc single and setting multiple records in the Pushrod 250 classes.  Their fastest was 72.0mph in the Production Pushrod class with Becca as rider.  She was just a little bit excited by that.  I would also like to congratulate Zack Millholland of Team Millholland for getting the fastest ever all-motor 250/4 at 118.6mph!!  Nice job on their Ninja.  I can't wait until April to see what everyone does over the winter.  I hope everyone has enjoyed reading our Maxton Mile 250cc hype and adventures.  We have had a blast this year! 
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Jarl- Moto Madcap
Sharpsburg MD
BUB2012- Morini 350- 4 Mod Pushrod records, Parilla 175- M-VG rec
250cc 4stroke Nitrous Motorcycle- 131.8mph
250/4 Naked Motorcycle-115.6mph
APS/F-125/2 115.2mph
P/PV-175/4 Moto Parilla-59.7mph
29 Retired Maxton Class Records on 3 bikes and 4 engines
Beairsto Racing
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« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2010, 01:24:18 AM »

Great story...I've enjoyed following the various 250 builds as each team has sorted their nitrous systems and enhanced their body work. Lots of perseverance and the fact that there is camaraderie amongst the competition is golden  cheers
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shiphteey
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« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2010, 07:18:58 AM »

Yeah it was a BLAST!  I left about 2 mph on the table in terms of potential I still had left but didn't feel like pushing too hard, especially once I already got my record back in MPS/F.  I think that it says a lot that a SINGLE has the 250/4 record though  cheers

I'm convinced if Eric hadn't popped it he would have gone faster than I, sometimes it isn't aways about who's faster but who's still able to go even faster.  I had some luck on my side though.  I think next year he will be upping the bar.

And lets not forget the Millhollands went 118 n/a  shocked

Here's a couple of pics of my 250, converted from a looped 250 that sat for a year to this in less than 24 consecutive hours:





Hope to see you guys next April!   cheers

A
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 07:20:55 AM by shiphteey » Logged

Gemini Motorcycles
229.6 mph at Loring
201.957 mph 2-way average @ Bonneville;
203.85 @ the Maxton Mile
207.2 @ Maxton -- NAKED
200.2 mph @ TX Mile
195.6 mph on GPS @ the 9/10ths
9.4 @ 157 in the 1/4
DanMay1776
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« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2010, 08:20:29 AM »

Thanks for the great write up Jarl.  I wanted to thank you and the rest of the group that helped us through tech inspection with the battery strap and switching out the K&N air filter back to the stock one to qualify for production class.  I guess passing tech in June does not mean you automatically pass in October  sad

It was a great event for us, walking away with 3 new records, the best being the fastest P/PV-250/4 record set at both Maxton and Bonneville, 72.085.  Not bad for Rebecca's first time out, and yes she does get excited  grin

If you want to read on, and see all the photos, visit:

http://www.becks-garage.com/

Daniel
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relaxedphit
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« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2010, 11:51:44 AM »

Glad that you're back Ali. I missed seeing you run since I had to leave a little early Sat. and take my wife home Sunday. Can't wait to see the 250's heat it up in April. Does Greg Neal still have his 250 Ninja?
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shiphteey
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« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2010, 07:27:17 AM »

Hah, thanks.  I'm looking forward to April too.  Last I checked Greg still has his 250 but he seems to have been riding his 6 and 10 more this year.
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Gemini Motorcycles
229.6 mph at Loring
201.957 mph 2-way average @ Bonneville;
203.85 @ the Maxton Mile
207.2 @ Maxton -- NAKED
200.2 mph @ TX Mile
195.6 mph on GPS @ the 9/10ths
9.4 @ 157 in the 1/4
generatorshovel
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« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2010, 05:52:32 PM »

Just a few thoughts from a self confessed lurker down under,,,,,,
Has anyone  had the strange feasibility thought of a blown 250/4 ?
Things like power consumtion V's gains with supercharging and adapting injection from a 600/4 and running alcohol fuel are wandering around in my mind.
Input anyone ?
Tiny (in OZ)
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Tiny (in OZ)
I would prefer to make horsepower, rather than buy, or hya it, regardless of the difficulties involved , as it would then be MINE
racer x
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« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2010, 07:48:15 PM »

MV did it in the 50s with a 4 cylinder. I have lost much sleep and used many napkins thinking about it. There is a nice hole in the side of the 250 Ninja case . With a simple seal and a pulley could run out of the case. Once that is done. It is a simple thing to mount a trigger wheel  for timing and fuel injection.

Alcohol will be a good choice in fuel because of its cooling effect.And to generate the proper creative juices. But these are just thought as you say. I am SURE there is a lot more thinking and drinking to do. cheers
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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2010, 08:23:24 PM »

Yes, someone has thought about a blown 250.  Take a look-see -- and then I'll tell you that we're hoping to have it back on the salt this year.  It took four records in '04 - and we haven't raced it since then.









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Jon E. Wennerberg
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 Skandia, Michigan
 (that's way up north)
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racer x
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« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2010, 09:22:56 PM »

I Thought he meant a belt driven super charger. There are some turbos out there.
these guys in Japan and some in Indonesia have done it .But no Speed test on the bikes I can find






I expect to see at real turbo show up at Maxton this year.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 09:27:01 PM by racer x » Logged

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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2010, 09:45:57 PM »

Oh.  to me the word "blown" implies forced induction and doesn't differentiate between exhaust-driven blowers and direct from engine-driven blowers.  I suppose that to some folks it does - and won't argue over the fact.  I just wanted to call the bluff, so to speak.  I doubt that the EX250T will make it to Maxton before October, if then.  When it ran in '04 it was the first time -- and while we ran about 120-121 with it, there was lots more development to do, lots more stuff to learn, lots more power to be made.  We hope to get it ready for Bonneville sometime in '11 -- after that you might see it again.  But then -- maybe Santa will be good to you and you'll PM me asking to buy it as a great project.

G'night.  It's bedtime in Skandia, Michigan.
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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generatorshovel
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« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2010, 10:39:34 PM »

SSS , by blown, I did mean supercharged,
               Racer X, I appreciate your input / experience.
Unfortunately my braincell count is down to 3 thesedays  embarassed  , I'm just trying to keep ahead of myself,as the current engine nears "the wall" I'd like to go up a class (capacity)in 2013, and time is running out too quickly for my proposed shot @ APSF-175 late next march.
Tiny
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Tiny (in OZ)
I would prefer to make horsepower, rather than buy, or hya it, regardless of the difficulties involved , as it would then be MINE
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