Author Topic: Goodyear Frontrunners  (Read 33187 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline fastman614

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 724
Re: Goodyear Frontrunners
« Reply #45 on: February 05, 2011, 10:45:38 PM »
jl..... re reading your post on here..... were you thinking that I was referring to tire spin?..... I  was referring to the car spinning after the wide tires hydroplaned and caused the car to spin

  I was referring to the narrow tires giving better traction, which theory we have completly blow into the pucker bushes.

  This narrow tire is better BS, is also proven by other cars [in their videos] with 1/3 the power of the 222 car not able
to hook up.

  Gail Banks showed us the way [and a lot of others should have got the message] in 1987 :-o

             JL222

And I was always curious to know exactly how much Gale's car really did weigh.... I do know that wide tires on rims that are on the narrow side of recommended width and LOTS of ballast(the latter-apparently VERY important) equals good traction
No s*** sticks to the man wearing a teflon suit.

Offline jl222

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2958
Re: Goodyear Frontrunners
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2011, 01:10:40 AM »
jl..... re reading your post on here..... were you thinking that I was referring to tire spin?..... I  was referring to the car spinning after the wide tires hydroplaned and caused the car to spin

  I was referring to the narrow tires giving better traction, which theory we have completly blow into the pucker bushes.

  This narrow tire is better BS, is also proven by other cars [in their videos] with 1/3 the power of the 222 car not able
to hook up.

  Gail Banks showed us the way [and a lot of others should have got the message] in 1987 :-o

             JL222

And I was always curious to know exactly how much Gale's car really did weigh.... I do know that wide tires on rims that are on the narrow side of recommended width and LOTS of ballast(the latter-apparently VERY important) equals good traction

  I don't know how much Bank's car weighed but our intercooler tank is similar at about 38 gal and our rims our 10''.
  Still what is this hydroplaning your talking about?
  One other point your advising others on '' a round profile shape'' this seems to be the opposite of any racing tire used on cars.
 were the contact patch is the only thing propelling the car.
  
         JL222

 P.S. reread post #22 were you state the opposite.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 01:18:38 AM by jl222 »

Offline fastman614

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 724
Re: Goodyear Frontrunners
« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2011, 08:01:01 PM »
jl..... re reading your post on here..... were you thinking that I was referring to tire spin?..... I  was referring to the car spinning after the wide tires hydroplaned and caused the car to spin

  I was referring to the narrow tires giving better traction, which theory we have completly blow into the pucker bushes.

  This narrow tire is better BS, is also proven by other cars [in their videos] with 1/3 the power of the 222 car not able
to hook up.

  Gail Banks showed us the way [and a lot of others should have got the message] in 1987 :-o

             JL222

And I was always curious to know exactly how much Gale's car really did weigh.... I do know that wide tires on rims that are on the narrow side of recommended width and LOTS of ballast(the latter-apparently VERY important) equals good traction

  I don't know how much Bank's car weighed but our intercooler tank is similar at about 38 gal and our rims our 10''.
  Still what is this hydroplaning your talking about?
  One other point your advising others on '' a round profile shape'' this seems to be the opposite of any racing tire used on cars.
 were the contact patch is the only thing propelling the car.
  
         JL222

 P.S. reread post #22 were you state the opposite.

Hydroplaning.... at the risk of sounding a tad patronizing in the preamble, I am saying this.... you California residents probably don't get a whole lot of chances to have heavily frozen lakes on which to drive in cold wether..... I somehow don't think you even get any amount of cold weather.... well, for those of us in other parts of the continent, where temperatures can get down to cold enough to make a body of water the size of Lake Mead freeze with ice that can be 2 feet or more thick, we get the chance to drive on iced lakes.... my first impression was how much it felt like being at Bonneville, actually.... now ice, at 20 below zero, has surprisingly good traction - not pavement quality traction but pretty good..... and you can get going pretty fast on a flat surface like that.... of curse, being that we were all guys cooped up in a construction camp for weeks on end, when we did get out and do stuff like this, inevitably, speed contests occur.... you can get cars and trucks going pretty fast on ice.... (ask the Swedes how fast they get up to).... well.... the people who had vehicles with narrower tires and heavier weight seemed to accelerate quicker than the performancy type cars with wider tires.... they seemed to be sliding around quite a bit more.... some time later though, there was a bit of a warm up.... the temperature got above freezing and there was noiceable moisture on the ice surface..... well, we wanted to keep having fun so we ended up doing a lot of swerving and spinning of our vehicles on the wet ice.... still....amongst the guys who wanted to still try to go fast the heavier vehicles with narrower tires had the advantage.

So, at Bonneville, there is a term that we often hear.... the track is getting a little loose..... after many runs, the surface of the salt has been worn off a little, leaving loose salt particles..... think about dust. dirt, sand or water on pavement and the salt particles are pretty much the same..... a layer of salt dust between your tires and the hard crystalline salt that you really want your tires to be hooking up into... spinning vehicles seems to be the phenomenon that occurs as a result of a loose track surface..... hydroplaning occurs as a result of riding on the salt particles rather than the hard salt base below the particles.... in the same manner as a car, when driven through a patch of water on pavement will lose traction ..... AND THIS HAS BEEN FIRMLY ESTABLISHED BY TIRE MANUFACTURERS, RESEARCHERS AND MANY WATCHDOG GROUPS

Now of course, it has been firmly established by others on this site that wide tires are not the culprit here ... like I say.... who am I to claim expertise in this matter?... I only know from my own experience.... 
No s*** sticks to the man wearing a teflon suit.

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

  • Nancy and me and the pit bike
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13168
  • Nancy -- 201.913 mph record on a production ZX15!
    • Nancy and Jon's personal website.
Re: Goodyear Frontrunners
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2011, 08:49:10 PM »
Fastman, you're right about traction on the ice.  One of the reasons that really cold ice has halfway-decent traction is that there's no film of water on the top to make it slippery.  Ice skaters rely on the sharp skates to concentrate their weight in as tiny a "contact patch" as possible -- which melts the ice instantaneously as the skate blade passes over and lubricates the contacted area.  With a tire- wide or narrow - it's not the same thing, at all, save for the cold hard ice has no wet layer and is more "sticky" - to a point.  With a wide tire there's not as much pressure per square inch (or whatever measuring system you choose) and the tire doesn't "stick" to the relatively rough surface of the ice as well as a narrow tire sticks.

Having driven way more many thousand miles on icy roads, snowy and slick roads, and every other winter condition you can imagine -- I agree with you.  And we've been to the ice races, and have goofed around on the ice, and yes, we've seen enough to know of what I speak.  And of what you speak, too.

Hydroplaning on water, as in rain-soaked streets -- that's a different kind of hydroplaning, and I guess is sort of akin to the surface of the salt when covered with grainy salt particles.  Ever try sliding on a sandy-covered asphalt paved parking lot?  Pretty much the same thing. . .
Jon E. Wennerberg
 a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim
 Skandia, Michigan
 (that's way up north)
2 Club member x2
Owner of landracing.com

Offline bvillercr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2291
Re: Goodyear Frontrunners
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2011, 12:56:08 AM »
First off, ice is not salt.  Secondly if you have no experience running wide tires on the the salt why are you giving advise on them hydroplaning?  I know many can't stand the debate, but we have always had great success with them and won't go to skinnies unless proven differently. 

Offline fastman614

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 724
Re: Goodyear Frontrunners
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2011, 06:24:38 AM »
First off, ice is not salt.  Secondly if you have no experience running wide tires on the the salt why are you giving advise on them hydroplaning?  I know many can't stand the debate, but we have always had great success with them and won't go to skinnies unless proven differently. 

What would make you think I have NO experience running wide tires on the salt?..... Goodyear Talladegas 800/820 X 15s for several years.... ONLY after being able to source some out .... and 1000-27.5 X 15s  Goodyears (I guess they were called Talladegas as well, although that word never appeared on the sidewalls).... for 3 years..... I had a few lengthy discussions with a Goodyear engineer on this topic....

And BTW.... since I inspect and I have done my share of spin reinspections ..... I get to see the log books.... and it seems certain vehicles, equipped with similar items, have proclivities to spin (roadsters excepted)

As far as I am concerned.... enough said on this topic.....

And, yes Slim, we do take pleasure in finding the corners of the parking lots shortly after the snow melts (and prior to the road sweepers coming through) and try sliding our vehicles..... do we NEVER grow up?
No s*** sticks to the man wearing a teflon suit.

Offline bvillercr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2291
Re: Goodyear Frontrunners
« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2011, 12:31:34 PM »
Hydroplanning is a bad choice of words then.  Enough said.

Offline Steve Walters

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 262
Re: Goodyear Frontrunners
« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2011, 12:56:21 PM »
Wait! Got to input, I was home on leave in 68.  Was riding with a buddy in his 57 Chevy, we were late for a party.  Came over the hill at 110MPH, herd of sheep, he said holy, I said sh---t,  :-o car went ka-phomp rolled up onto the sheep, was like riding a cloud, floated to a a stop, and didn't go sidways at all.  I only buy cotton clothing, and never eat mutton since.

Steve   
I've been from Bone to Blackfoot, but still just a Newbie here.

Wa's Bad Banana
B/CGALT

Offline jl222

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2958
Re: Goodyear Frontrunners
« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2011, 03:16:08 PM »

  My advice.. to all my competition run the narrowest tires you can [ this will give you more lbs per sq in] with the highest pressure and don't forget the solid suspension  :-P

                        JL222

  P.S. With average salt conditions we think we can run a 290+ mph 21/4 speed and  a 300 + with good conditions.

        [ BUT not with skinneys ] :-D

Offline Dr Goggles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3120
  • The Jarman-Stewart "Spirit of Sunshine" Bellytank
    • "Australian Bellytank" , http://thespiritofsunshine.blogspot.com/
Re: Goodyear Frontrunners
« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2011, 03:49:08 PM »
Wait! Got to input, I was home on leave in 68.  Was riding with a buddy in his 57 Chevy, we were late for a party.  Came over the hill at 110MPH, herd of sheep, he said holy, I said sh---t,  :-o car went ka-phomp rolled up onto the sheep, was like riding a cloud, floated to a a stop, and didn't go sidways at all.  I only buy cotton clothing, and never eat mutton since.

Steve   

110mph? what ...were you on the lamb?
Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

http://thespiritofsunshine.blogspot.com/

Current Australian E/GL record holder at 215.041mph

THE LUCKIEST MAN IN SLOW BUSINESS.

Offline Stan Back

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5889
Re: Goodyear Frontrunners
« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2011, 03:54:43 PM »
Why do ewe want to know?
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline jl222

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2958
Re: Goodyear Frontrunners
« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2011, 03:57:57 PM »
  There is a lot of speculation of the salt flats being like ice, makes me wonder if they have ever noticed black
 rubber acceleration marks on ice? Or the black marks at Bville?

                     JL222

Offline Dr Goggles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3120
  • The Jarman-Stewart "Spirit of Sunshine" Bellytank
    • "Australian Bellytank" , http://thespiritofsunshine.blogspot.com/
Re: Goodyear Frontrunners
« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2011, 03:59:55 PM »
 There is a lot of speculation of the salt flats being like ice, makes me wonder if they have ever noticed black
 rubber acceleration marks on ice? Or the black marks at Bville?

                     JL222

Some people just follow the herd John, you're a black ........oh forget it.... :roll:
Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

http://thespiritofsunshine.blogspot.com/

Current Australian E/GL record holder at 215.041mph

THE LUCKIEST MAN IN SLOW BUSINESS.

Offline jl222

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2958
Re: Goodyear Frontrunners
« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2011, 04:07:27 PM »
 There is a lot of speculation of the salt flats being like ice, makes me wonder if they have ever noticed black
 rubber acceleration marks on ice? Or the black marks at Bville?

                     JL222

Some people just follow the herd John, you're a black ........oh forget it.... :roll:

  :-D :cheers:

Offline Dr Goggles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3120
  • The Jarman-Stewart "Spirit of Sunshine" Bellytank
    • "Australian Bellytank" , http://thespiritofsunshine.blogspot.com/
Re: Goodyear Frontrunners
« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2011, 04:19:17 PM »
Why do ewe want to know?

well at that speed if you ram someone, well you know, it'd be dicey wether* they'd survive, that's what I was ruminating over.
Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

http://thespiritofsunshine.blogspot.com/

Current Australian E/GL record holder at 215.041mph

THE LUCKIEST MAN IN SLOW BUSINESS.