Australian Belly Tank

[maj]

You could put the pump in tank ...

[Dr Goggles]

You could put the pump in tank ...

We're currently blaming the Al one for cavitating and frying the pump, access will allow us to sock the outlet, OR, use an internal.......

yeah, thing is that Al tank is epoxy lined.......that'd mean cutting it to make an access panel, then re-lining it.............the stainless would cost me less than the lining......on the positive side in-tanks are a little cheaper, on the negative side it's easier to "isolate" components with an external.

[Milwaukee Midget]

yeah, thing is that Al tank is epoxy lined.......that'd mean cutting it to make an access panel, then re-lining it.............the stainless would cost me less than the lining......on the positive side in-tanks are a little cheaper, on the negative side it's easier to "isolate" components with an external.

I can think of a no more banally ludicrous pain in the b*#t than changing out an in-tank fuel pump.

Drain the gas, remove the tank, disconnect the wires, make sure the pump is properly grounded, rewire, fire it up, watch it leak - repeat. 

With luck, it would be the last time you need to do it, but you're talking a change of power plant next year, and will the in-tank you install this year provide sufficient fuel for the quad-cam? 

I'd go with an external pump that's easy to access and change in the field, if necessary.

Ooooooooh - stainless -
shiny   shiny   shiny   shiny   shiny   shiny   shiny   shiny   shiny   shiny   

[Dr Goggles]

 I spent some time staring at it last night. Quiet contemplation.When I made the fuel tank that is in it I underestimated the hassle value.I suspect I have since allowed the true value of the hassle to diminish in my memory...... There is a dim light blinking at the moment and it has a dymo label under it that says "warning, time wasting imminent" .....I don't want to spend the time and money on making a new tank when I know for a fact that other things are going to come up and there will be a fix for the current ills of the fuel tank, and someone out there will know what to do.

Just to reiterate , the fuel pump ,a Bosch 580 254 044 carked it after a life of about 1 hour running time....we suspect that it was cavitating, but I still won't rule out a foreign object such as a dag of epoxy , or Al or whatever..It is clamped in a beer can size clamp that doesn't pinch it, there are heat shields so it is not subjected to any extreme radiant heat, it has the correct gauge wiring

Below is a diagram drawn with a thumbnail dipped in tar...note there is no filter before the pump, no sock in the tank.The breather runs off from top left.There is a splash guard against the return line and also a cross shaped piece over the outlet to stop swirl......***EDIT****I might have to check that again....the filter may be between the tank and pump...it's currently disassembled and at a glance I thought that was how it went together but I msy be wrong, anyway.....who thinks what will help is important.



The tank is epoxy lined so if I have to cut it I might as well make another one because I won't be able to weld anything to it...

Who has suggestions as to whether an additional filter would help?,
would a swirl tank help?,
would longer lines before the pump help?.

HELP PLEASE!!!!

PS: It's OK to be brutal

[Nexxussian]

A pre pump screen would be a good idea. I say screen as I don't particularly trust a "filter" (either 'paper' or synthetic element) prior to the pump as it is more likely to cause a restriction that could lead to cavitation of the pump.

My 2cents are still on something solid making it into the pump inlet.

How large is the hose leading to the pump? Is it large enough that the smallest fitting in that run has a interior bore size large enough to pass the fuel to the pump without restriction (all straigt or "tube" bends, no "drilled" fittings)?

Pump inlet hose is of a type that it won't "suck flat"?

I expect you know to check for all that, but it bears mention as I, and several others I've seen have been caught short before with having something installed for mockup that wasn't intended to run, but missing it somehow on "final" assembly.



If you are set on a new tank, stainless if in the budget. Anything but mild.

[Peter Jack]

If you're going to build a stainless tank be absolutely sure you back purge the tank when you weld it. The quality goes up exponentially.

My choice would be to use the screen type filter before the pump with the present tank.

Pete

[SPARKY]

is it possible that the vent line acted at a P trap as in a sewer system- --I  know of engs that went lean because the tank couldn't vent properly---it takes a larger line to vent than most think---remember press. vs velocity

[Dr Goggles]

is it possible that the vent line acted at a P trap as in a sewer system- --I  know of engs that went lean because the tank couldn't vent properly---it takes a larger line to vent than most think---remember press. vs velocity

Good point , and an easy one to change just in case, Thanks Bill.

A pre pump screen would be a good idea. I say screen as I don't particularly trust a "filter" (either 'paper' or synthetic element) prior to the pump as it is more likely to cause a restriction that could lead to cavitation of the pump.

...been lying awake thinking of ways to make a swirl pot/screen filter container

How large is the hose leading to the pump? Is it large enough that the smallest fitting in that run has a interior bore size large enough to pass the fuel to the pump without restriction (all straigt or "tube" bends, no "drilled" fittings)?

yep, the specified size

Pump inlet hose is of a type that it won't "suck flat".

Will be changing to steel just in case.

I expect you know to check for all that, but it bears mention as I, and several others I've seen have been caught short before with having something installed for mockup that wasn't intended to run, but missing it somehow on "final" assembly.

Hallelujah on that one salt brother, I mean, "tight" and "finished" are relative terms , aren't they?

[Peter Jack]

Look up any of the American speed equipment sites and you'll find screen type filters that can be disassembled for inspection. I'd probably start with Speedway Motors and Summit. It's never ending from there. You might add Oberg to the list.

Pete

[PJQ]

...one more Maxy reference

[Nexxussian]

Well, yes, there's not tight enough, tight enough, too tight, and how diesel mechanics seem to tighten stuff (crank it till it shears and back off a 1/4 turn  ).

Finished?

Are any of these ever finished?

[Rex Schimmer]

Doc Goggles,
I would recommend puting your pressure regulator after the fuel rail, this insures that there is fuel flowing thru the fuel rail, under pressure , all the time. The way you have is set up there can be an air pocket captured at the end of the fuel rail. It will eventually go away but in the mean time your injectors will be injecting air. I assume that your fuel regulator is a three port unit with one port going staight thru and the other being the return port. You will need to plug one of the thru ports and then run a line from the end of the fuel rail to the other port and of course run the return line back to the tank. This insures that there is always fuel flowing thru the rail and that there is not air.

I am in the process of installing a VERY large filter on the suction side of my electronic fuel pump in my street roadster, it has Hilborn electronic injection. I very much dislike having a pump suck thru a filter but my ECU guy tells me I need to protect the pumps from junk in the gas tank as it can make them go bad. My pump happens to be from a Porsche Turbo that I have had for over 20 years, I never throw anything away! so replacing it could be expensive.  I also have a tall and narrow fuel tank so I have some additional "head" that helps the inlet conditions on the fuel pump. The filter I am installing is 2-1/2 inches in diameter, 12 inches long and has 3/4 NPT ports so I think, even using a 10 micron filter, that the pressure drop will not be much. I had a very bad experience this summer coming back from Bonneville in my roadster all related to the small fuel filter that I was using and I don't want to do it again!!

I posted a pic of my engine , and you can see the fuel from the fuel pump goes int the RH end of the fuel rail and then thru the fuel regulator on the lower left hand side and back to the tank.

Rex

[Dr Goggles]

Sorry Rex another result of my rushed post with the diagram , the fuel reg IS at the end of the fuel rail. We are wondering now if we should just use a smaller pump than the 044 that we have been using( it will support 700hp, we don't quite have a half of that), less draw, less chance of cavitating?.................

[wolcottjl]

I have a Bosch 044 pump that has been abused and still runs day in and day out.  The unit is junkyard piece off of a VW rabbit or passat that had over 100K miles.  I forget which.  I do run a screen as a pre-filter. 

[Stainless1]

So, did you find a little piece of fuel tank in your pump?  If you are worried about vortex, put fuel foam in the tank, but be sure you have a prepump filter.  Just a screen filter would work.  We actually use a holly blue (pumps anything and everything) at the tank, pumping to the filter and then on to the Bosch EFI pump.