Australian Belly Tank

[Milwaukee Midget]

Bon appetit, Slim and Nancy!

They should be British Racing Green, if I'm not mistaken.

Okay, Rev, you can have your thread back now.

[Dr Goggles]

As Number Two used to say to Number 6 back in the Village, "Information . . . We want . . . Information"

It's probably all here, but you've got 53 pages going, so let's sum up:
RPM at the speed your looking to achieve ?.

This year we ran 160.4@5200 .............6800-7000rpm will see us over 200mph with the current gearing.

Extent to which the ports are worked?.

fairly extensive porting job at the hands of the Colonel

Valve size?.

Inlet 1.77  Exhaust 1.5

Induction?

2x65mm

Rocker ratio?.

1.65:1( I think)

Compression ratio.?

9.6:1

[Geo]

Is that intake setup going to fit under the body?  I don't want to see the lines buggered up with bumps and scoops and what have you.  You have such a smooth tank and have worked hard to keep it aero.  Nice idea using two throttle bodies.  They could go on the end and not on the top.  Did you see the thread on intakes for the rear engine roadster build with the tapering plenum?

I'm looking forward to the V6 build.  Half a V12 so I may get some ideas I can double! 

Geo

[Dr Goggles]

Is that intake setup going to fit under the body? 

yeah, that's what we ran this year.....

There was discussion between the Colonel and I as to whether we'd try a twin TB set-up that is on the market here that makes nearly 30% more torque than stock , it's a sidewinder set up so it fits under the stock sedan hood, we're sticking with ours........it hasn't been back to back with a standard one on the dyno but the Col. seems to think it would probably stack up well so we're keeping the readies to spend on other bits.

[Reverend Hedgash]

As Number Two used to say to Number 6 back in the Village, "Information . . . We want . . . Information"

Love that series, so much so I presented the whole 17 episodes in a pub in Melbourne. I got a strange group of local geeks who'd come in, drink one or two drinks, then leave when it finished.

I told them that the clue to the riddle was in the title sequence, but none of them could work it out and were just as shocked as BBC viewers were when they saw the last episode. I will not spoil it here.

I visited the village, Portmeirion, where it was filmed in North Wales, it is still exactly the same. Even the fake boat that doesn't go anywhere is there. The whole place was designed by an architect who collected bits of old buildings to save them from being destroyed; it was meant to be the first eco village and has a really weird sense of scale about it. A lot of things look bigger than they actually are, so when you go to walk to them you arrive quite a  bit before you thought you would.

Wikipedia says:

Portmeirion is an Italianate resort village in Gwynedd, on the coast of Snowdonia in Wales. The village is located in the community of Penrhyndeudraeth, on the estuary of the River Dwyryd, 2 miles (3.2 km) south east of Porthmadog, and 1 mile (1.6 km) from the railway station at Minffordd, which is served by both the narrow gauge Ffestiniog Railway and Arriva Trains Wales (Cambrian Line).

Got to love the Welsh...

There is a new version:

http://www.aol.com.au/tv/story/The-Prisoner-preview-AMCs-remake-just-as-bizarre-as-the-original/2394144/index.html

Haven't seen it yet, hopefully they haven't missed the point.

rH+

[Dr Goggles]

Have been mulling over the cam question and in deep discussion with the Colonel. The cam sheet shown on the previous page was for a 1644a which needs to made from a new billet. The best they can do on a regrind is a 1365a , there is the a sheet for that cam at the bottom of the page. We are leaning toward it not just for budgetary reasons. As everybody here knows there is no end to how much money you can spend on a motor and once you start modifying there is no "sensible" level as there is the great tug of war between performance and insurance......we want more power, but we want it to driveable(rather not push it off the line for now) and have some longevity, it for us is fun for the moment ,not grounds for divorce and if word gets out that we're spending a home extension on the motor we're flicked............ As the Colonel said " we could ask around for some Formula Holden heads( they'd have roller rockers at 1.7:1 big valves and a port job...) but we'd be better spending that money on the Alloytec"(electronically variable quad-cam all alloy)......

But we want to get up toward , or beyond 200 with this old Buick based donk before we go to the trouble of building the necessaries to fit the Alloytec.

here is the cam sheet

   Profile          Actuation             Make/Model           R/Ratio
          1365A10          Roller Follower Holden V6  3.8              In1.6 Ex 1.6
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------
           Cam Lift   Duration    Duration   Valve   Valve    Lift      Phase
                       Adv           @050     Clr    Lift     tdc        <)
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Intake     313        282        228      Hyd      0.5008    068        110
  Exhaust    313        282        228      Hyd      0.5008    055
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------

                             Timing                  Timing
                             Adv                    @ 0.05
                          Open      Close        Open      Close
           Exhaust      74 Bbdc     28 Atdc      47 Bbdc   1 Atdc

           Intake       34 Btdc     68 Abdc      7 Btdc     41 Abdc

                                62                  8
                          Deg Over-lap        Deg Over-lap

                 Intake Centreline  107          Exhaust Centreline  113

[Milwaukee Midget]

Let me chuck out a few thoughts.

I seem to recall that you had a rev limiting issue, that it was electronically related, and we'll assume it's been addressed.

9.6:1 Compression ratio - no way to up that this year?  Maybe a head shave?  Is this a fuel related issue, or economic?

By the way, what is the octane of the fuel you have available?

Assuming the intake and ports flow properly, looks like you've got room for bigger valves.  3.8 bore, correct?  6800-7000 seems doable, but the question is, what kind of horsepower will you get there?  I'm thinking the short overlap on the 1365A, combined with the small valves, might choke off on the top end.  Did you flow the head?

The 1644A will respond up top, probably right in the range you want it to, but you'll need more compression to exploit it.

Of course, a regrind might give you an opportunity to use those extra long pushrods - 

I'm still cypherin' on this, but I thought I'd get the ball rolling.  Do you know your current cam specs?

Blue always says, "Don't guess, test".  You guys are in this for the long term.  If it were me, and I had to make a decision before March, I'd take the incremental approach.  I'd go with the 1365A, and see if it puts you where you want to be.  After that, be it success or failure, the decisions get tougher and will require a more holistic approach.

[Dr Goggles]

....................took the motor to Colonel's workshop this morning , at least I hope it was him, I had a late night. We discussed the compression issue. "Huh? then we'll have issues with the inlet manifold...."

"isn't there enough meat to just port match it?"

"deah.... the extra comp'll bring it's own bunch of problems that we probably don't want to have to deal with anyway"

at this point we hoisted it out of the back of the ute, the ute which I last night backed into a gatepost with the tailgate down, nice, put a cleft right in the top of it where it will be no simple job to pull it out......

had to take the flywheel off to get it onto the engine stand...gee those flywheel bolts were kind of loose

I left it there with him, the new bottom end , and the cat Cohen who has his own place on the parts shelves, with a stock number......"Part: Cat( Cohen) Qty: 1"

[Nexxussian]

WOW, you snapped me back to reality.

I just remembered, Jesse Ventura was also a governor.

Wonder what the common thread was.

FREUD

Since I already suggested a stop to this, I'll respond via PM.

Hopefully ending the Hijack.

[ben james]

jesse the body ventura, you're bleedin dutch, ain't got time to bleed, name the movie

[grumm441]

Maybe a head shave? 
By the way, what is the octane of the fuel you have available?
Did you flow the head?
Of course, a regrind might give you an opportunity to use those extra long pushrods - 

So i shaved my head, now my ears are cold and my car doesn't go any faster!
I believe we were using 98 ron  fuel but as i spent the first two days of the meeting scrutineering bikes, I'm not sure what they had in it, and as The Dr ran EG/L and the Rev ran EF/L (10mph slower)  I'm not sure I want to ask
As for the extra long pushrods, I'm not sure that they curve the right way for the intended application.
No the heads weren't flowed as this wasn't in the budget, just a cleanup port job and some new springs

I will look at the valve sizes when i get the heads off as i think i have one or two larger valves lying around that were going to in the double hump heads that i was going to put on the monaro (see avitar) and the more i look at them the more i think they are just old junk.
I think that if we were going to go down the trick heads route we should probably look for some formula holden heads second hand
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_Holden
as we have the brand new quad cam v6 alloytech sitting in my shed all the other engines, waiting for 2011


 

[maj]

Why wait or spend on the old engine if you already have better ??

if your going to machine the old v6 heads, also machine the inlet manifold side of the head , need to check but i think its ~.090 off the manifold side for every .100 off the head , if the heads are closed chamber its better to do the block

[Milwaukee Midget]

 

Now that's a holistic approach.  Note to self - 2011 - opening NEW worm can!

Hell, just screw the old one together with the regrind for now.

Are the authorities on board for the March event this year?  I know it's always a bit dodgy.

[Geo]

Bill and I went out junkyarding.  What an enjoyable sport.  We talked about our motors what we could do with them and the vast sums of knowledge and parts available.  Old school stuff.  We got around to the newer engines and poked and measured.  Talked for hours as we wandered.  Found out we would need to modify a few things to go from old to new generation.

About halfway through the morning we realized flogging the old horse was not going to get us where we needed to go.  The newest generation engines was the only place to be spending time and money.

Geo

[Milwaukee Midget]

About halfway through the morning we realized flogging the old horse was not going to get us where we needed to go.  The newest generation engines was the only place to be spending time and money.
Geo

Good point.  The question then becomes an issue of time and philosophy.  Do you spend the next 3 months making a new engine work with the tank?  Do you have the ECU for the quad-cam?  Will it mate up to your transmission?  How important is a new paint job?

. . . we want to get up toward , or beyond 200 with this old Buick based donk before we go to the trouble of building the necessaries to fit the Alloytec.

It looks like the chassis is well sorted out . . .

. . . it ran as straight as a die, and correction was simple as we drove.

One more run would have been the absolute cherry on the top, but as we were using the stock computer for the motor it may not have gone much faster as there is an engine cutout at around 5500rpm. The Colonel built an override for the fuel cutout at 5200rpm so there was still some legs in her.

For next year we need to:

• Make the seat more comfortable; there is a cross bar which bruised Dr G's bum so amendments required there.
  Up the fire extinguishers for the 200mph requirement level
  Improve the hatch hinge which proved a little fragile.
  Get all the switches properly mounted on the steering wheel
  Make puke tanks for the diff breather and petrol breather
  Install a ball valve to protect fuel spill in a roll-over
  Install a better speedo, our tacho looked great but was not accurate. We resorted to using the Colonels GPS which worked a treat. May simply put a bicycle speedo on the front wheel.
  Improve the parachute release mechanism, it is prone to not locking properly (!)
  Get ready the Megasquirt engine management system so we can override the old computer and improve high end mix
  Finish and improve the trim around the front canopy
  improve bodywork joins, fixings etc
  New paint job

So much to do so little time!!!

Indeed.

Set up the old donk with the new cam, finish the above, and that's a three month laundry list right there, especially with the holidays just around the corner.

But then, part of the fun is the burning of midnight oil in the mad-dash attempt to bring something new in under the wire.

Don't you just love philosophy?