Author Topic: Australian Belly Tank  (Read 3185943 times)

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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #870 on: January 05, 2010, 10:45:15 AM »
Yep, you guys are my type of serious racers.... hope that's a Nomex sports bra...  :-o
 :cheers:
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline grumm441

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #871 on: January 06, 2010, 12:49:45 AM »
Corrine asked me to point out that she is in fact wearing what's known in Aus as a "wife beater"
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wife%20beater
If it's nomex or not, i cannot say
See if you recognise the steering wheel .
G
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Spirit of Sunshine Bellytank Lakester
https://www.dlra.org.au/rulebook.htm

Offline Dr Goggles

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #872 on: January 06, 2010, 03:54:53 PM »
hmmmm, I dunno what to say but i'm figuring I'm gonna get clobbered whatever happens here, I know I can outrun you...........does she have a gun license too?

Yes the steering wheel is familiar and yeah I know where your gonna stick it next time you see me...

BTW bidding has started on the Monaro, the racing budget will soon get a top-up.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 03:13:46 PM by Dr Goggles »
Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

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Current Australian E/GL record holder at 215.041mph

THE LUCKIEST MAN IN SLOW BUSINESS.

Offline grumm441

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #873 on: January 07, 2010, 10:02:31 AM »
Mmmm   Monaro

And for anyone who hasn't seen it

Chief Motorcycle Steward Dry Lakes Racers Australia Inc
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https://www.dlra.org.au/rulebook.htm

Offline Dr Goggles

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Aussie Belly Tank fire system
« Reply #874 on: January 10, 2010, 05:25:37 PM »
...well, my Monaro weren't quiite like the Colonel's , but it's sold anyway....

Now , here is something that some people might find interesting.....

Yesterday the Colonel and I emptied the smaller bottles we had for our fire system .You may remember me commenting that they were failing at an alarming rate, one failed inspection before we went to the lake last year, another one ruptured not long after we got back from the lake and a month or so back we found the pressure lost in yet another one.

When we emptied them we found there to be large chunks of solid , some of them the size of your fingernail, one of the dip tubes broke ,and they were all blocked anyway......To be honest I'd bet my last dollar they wouldn't have worked, the solids would have blocked the nozzles....if they got that far..........And by the way....it's just soap, whatever they want to call it.

Due to the fail rate I made the comment to the Rev and the Colonel that we may as well empty the cylinders  after each trip to the lake because the solution corrodes the cylinders so badly, the checks and refills are much cheaper than the hardware , so in the long run it will work out cheaper ( and have more peace of mind ) to empty and clean them every year and then have them refilled the month before we go.

I'm glad our car didn't catch fire............................................................... 

 We have made the decision top move from the 1.5 kg to the 4Kg as a matter of necessity under the rules.so we've been tossing up where the best place to put them is as there is very very little available space anywhere in the car. We have elected to put them either side of the driver again where the original ones were but we'll have to make cut out in either side of the seat back.
Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

http://thespiritofsunshine.blogspot.com/

Current Australian E/GL record holder at 215.041mph

THE LUCKIEST MAN IN SLOW BUSINESS.

Offline grumm441

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #875 on: January 11, 2010, 07:43:09 AM »
Am just sitting at home in Melbourne. It's 11:35 PM and according to the weather bureau, it was 35.9 degrees Celsius at 11;25 pm
Thats about 96F. Oh and it was 43.6c (110.3f) at 5 pm
Any how on to business
One of the siphon tubes just broke when i touched it
The good news is that the siphon tubes in the bigger bottles are not made of Aluminium but stainless steel
Chief Motorcycle Steward Dry Lakes Racers Australia Inc
Spirit of Sunshine Bellytank Lakester
https://www.dlra.org.au/rulebook.htm

Offline Geo

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #876 on: January 11, 2010, 08:11:14 AM »
Guys,

Thanks for reporting this.  What type of agent are in the extinguishers?

Cold Fire, AFFF Water & Foam, Water Mist, Wet Chemical, Regular Dry Chemical, ABC Muli-Purpose, Purple K, Carbon Dioxide, Halon?

Geo

Offline Dr Goggles

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #877 on: January 11, 2010, 08:37:00 AM »
ColdFire.

My recommendation is to empty them at the end of the season, then refill them shortly before you need them and get them certified. This way the cylinders and fitting will last a lot longer AND there will be no risk that the solids will form which will potentially block the lines or nozzles.

I didn't look that far into it ( Dean LA will sort us here I suggest) but from what I remember Aluminium is a reactive metal that protects itself with an impermeable oxide, obviously the solution in this system breaks down the oxide and so corrosion continues unabated , added to the issue of the detergent coagulating. Sure it might be "residue free" and "non-toxic plant based"...........but our system was terminally compromised and I believe non-functional.

I made the comment to the Colonel when we were doing this ..." It's weird ya know, they let you build your whole f****n car and yet you ain't allowed to look after the fire system, when it's patently obvious that the certification/design of this ain't satisfactory....." To be honest I'll say here and now , after seeing what I did , I'd be perfectly happy to empty the cylinders AFTER they were certified just to make sure they were OK....because last year they were stickered and yet as far as I can see they were next to useless.

Once again , off the bat without checking I have a feeling Halon has been banned after an asphyxiation (non-fatal) during DLRA Speedweek 2006....personally I don't want any oxygen replacing compound released in our car.......maybe powder or CO2 in the rear of the car but definitely not near me.
Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

http://thespiritofsunshine.blogspot.com/

Current Australian E/GL record holder at 215.041mph

THE LUCKIEST MAN IN SLOW BUSINESS.

Offline Ron Gibson

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #878 on: January 11, 2010, 01:59:15 PM »
Just wondering if you know if the bottles were pressurized with air instead of nitrogen. The fire extinguisher company I use says they use nitrogen. I think (my opinion) there wouldn't be any corrosion without oxygen. Someone way smarter than me may chime in on this.

Ron
Life is an abrasive. Whether you get ground away or polished to a shine depends on what you are made of.

Offline jl222

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #879 on: January 11, 2010, 02:54:42 PM »
  Ist.... Congratulations  :cheers:  100,000 hits on build diary the 1st, good job and entertaining too :-D

  Thanks on the heads up on Cold Fire,thats what we run and am now concerned. Just removed bottles yesterday and
  would like some answers from Cold Fire before I have them certified. Its a 4 hour drive one way to get them certified so refilling
  would mean 2 trips as shipping pressurized bottles is not allowed.

                JL222
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 02:58:50 PM by jl222 »

Offline Dr Goggles

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #880 on: January 11, 2010, 03:13:01 PM »
Thanks John, we've enjoyed every minute of it.

I guess you're right about the nitrogen Ron, it would make sense.......and like wise someone with the knowledge will chime in.
Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

http://thespiritofsunshine.blogspot.com/

Current Australian E/GL record holder at 215.041mph

THE LUCKIEST MAN IN SLOW BUSINESS.

Offline Rob

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #881 on: January 11, 2010, 11:05:18 PM »
 Thanks on the heads up on Cold Fire,thats what we run and am now concerned. Just removed bottles yesterday and
  would like some answers from Cold Fire before I have them certified. Its a 4 hour drive one way to get them certified so refilling
  would mean 2 trips as shipping pressurized bottles is not allowed.

                JL222
JL222,

Can't you drain and mail them, then just drive the once to pick up full bottles? Just a thought anyhow.

.................................

Keep slugging away Doc and Rev, by my math we're 55 days out and counting.

cheers,
Rob

Offline Geo

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #882 on: January 11, 2010, 11:33:30 PM »
Yes, work the mind and prevent Alzheimer's.  Well, this is doing it!  A little research on foam leads me to not want use aluminum bottles (even with corrosion inhibitors).  Perhaps there was no corrosion inhibitor included in your mix.  Still stainless steel is better although steel looks OK.  Some info and links for the rest of you.  I pulled a few lines from documents to illustrate the confusion.  It will take further research on my part to decide what type of extinguisher to add to the one I already have.

From the ColdFire site. But rebutted in further documents.

Unlike old-fashioned AFFF foam, Cold Fire is completely non-corrosive and has an indefinite shelf life. You can put it in a 1.5 or 2.5 gallon extinguisher, or in the water tank of your crash truck and forget about it. It will never gel, crystalize, separate or corrode the metal. RDR offers even smaller 2,3 and 4 liter fire extinguishers with fixed nozzles. It can even be used in closed loop suppression/sprinkler systems.

http://www.fire-end.com/foam_types.htm

Fire fighting foams can be put into two very broad categories: Class A, and Class B. These categories correspond to the types of fuels that the foams are designed to be used on. This is very important! No matter what any salesman tells you Class A foam is not designed to put out class B fires. It looks white and bubbly, but they are chemically not compatible. Using Class A foam on flammable liquids (Class B) could extinguish the fire but lead to catastrophic results because of its inability to secure the explosive vapors. Class B fuels can be subdivided into two more subclasses: Hydrocarbons like gasoline, kerosene, and fuel oil will not mix with water; and polar solvents like alcohols, ketones, and ethers which will mix with water.

Class B foams can be divided into two general categories: synthetic based or protein based. Both types have advantages and disadvantages.

Synthetic foams are basically super soap with fire performance additives. They include high expansion foam, aqueous film forming foam (AFFF), and Alcohol Resistant aqueous film forming foam (AR-AFFF). In general synthetic foams flow more freely and provide quick knockdown with limited post fire security.

Protein foams use natural protein foamers instead of a synthetic soap, and similar fire performance components are added. Protein type foams include regular protein foam (P), fluoroprotein foam (FP), alcohol resistant fluoroprotein foam (AR-FP), film forming fluoroprotein (FFFP), and alcohol resistant film forming fluoroprotein (FFFP). In general, protein based foams spread slightly slower than synthetic, but produce a more heat resistant, longer lasting foam blanket.

http://www.firehouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35275

Protein-based foams can offer a significant advantage over detergent-based foams, however. Under some conditions, detergent foams make certain fuels easier to ignite.

Aqueous film forming foams (AFFF) are water-based and contain corrosive chemicals.
Suitable for use with carbon steel, fiberglass, polyethylene or stainless steel.
It is intended for use at a proportioning rate of 1% (1 part AFFF concentrate to 99 parts water) on Class B hydrocarbon type fuels such as gasoline, kerosene, diesel, etc. Chemguard 1% AFFF is not intended for use on fuels, which are polar solvent/water miscible such as alcohols, ketones, esters, etc.
Full stainless steel cylinder that resists corrosion.

Protein foams include regular protein foam (P), fluoroprotein foam (FP), alcohol resistant fluoroprotein foam (AR-FP), film forming fluoroprotein (FFFP), and alcohol-resistant film forming fluoroprotein (AR-FFFP).
FFFP foam on blended gasoline is your best choice because gasoline blended with MTBE prevents AFFF from forming a film under the bubbles.

http://safetyinfo.wordpress.com/fire-safety/classification-of-fire-extinguishers/water-foam-fire-extinguishers/

Geo

Offline Dr Goggles

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #883 on: January 11, 2010, 11:51:42 PM »
Nice work Wizard....I'm currently looking into a whole replacement system, and will be also seeking info from the supplier of the original system as to whether it is the same as what they supply now.....or whther these problems have come to light and changed their design/info/ingredients

Should this be another thread?
Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

http://thespiritofsunshine.blogspot.com/

Current Australian E/GL record holder at 215.041mph

THE LUCKIEST MAN IN SLOW BUSINESS.

Offline Geo

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #884 on: January 12, 2010, 12:09:25 AM »
Thanks.  Wizzard   huh?  Well I have been called many things, so thank you Dr.

Yes I think it should have a thread of it's own.  You make the first post with your discovery and add my research.  We will see where it goes.

Lets have a safe 2010.  Year of the Tiger by the way.

Geo