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Author Topic: Australian Belly Tank  (Read 1854461 times)

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Offline maj

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #4170 on: January 15, 2014, 10:21:55 PM »
Not much happening in the middle of the day Bo, if Dr G's shed is as hot as mine its difficult just been there for long
trying to do some fibreglass work, but now its not curing, went just a little light on the catalyst as the previous batch just about beat me

Offline Dr Goggles

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #4171 on: January 16, 2014, 03:16:49 PM »
Gee Bo, that's uncommon advice there.

This heat wave will kill a lot of people here in Melbourne and they wont be on the back of a donkey or in the shade of a boulder in the desert,they'll be hunkered in a hot flat,dehydrated and mad with the heat. The last one like this added 370 people to the usual number of deaths attended to by the ambulance service,it included people running,running?

I saw a hipster ,with beard, riding up a hill in Maribyrnong on Wednesday, it was 107 in the old money and he was pedalling like the hounds of hell were after him.

Take it easy when it's hot, avoid direct Sun,avoid diuretics, drink plenty of plain water maybe with electrolytes if you have been exerting yourself. Failing that stay inside and drink gin..........

Tank day tomorrow.....

Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

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Current Australian E/GL record holder at 215.041mph

THE LUCKIEST MAN IN SLOW BUSINESS.

Offline tauruck

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #4172 on: January 16, 2014, 03:26:34 PM »
We got what you got!

I never took a pic but I will do so tomorrow.

I have a table with a glass top I use for making Carbon sheets.
I do the work and then put another glass plate over it.
I had it out in the sun to "Post Cure".
I put the pyrometer on it and it went to 80*C so I fried two eggs on it for the Jack Russels. :lol:

Offline maj

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #4173 on: January 16, 2014, 04:35:01 PM »
Bloody electrolites will kill you if thats all you drink, all previous generations survived fine with just water , why all of a sudden do we HAVE to drink electrolite
Country fire authority supply us with both water and electrolite on the fire scene , and quite definite in there recommendation of 2:1, 2 bottles of water to every 1 of electrolite , probably should start a post on the DLRA site to be sure we dont get a repeat of last yr

Be nice and cool tomorrow, you should get lots done , hows the countdown going, be ready in good time ?

my glass took 24 hrs to mostly set, its in the sun today so i hope to be busy tomorrow too 

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #4174 on: January 16, 2014, 06:15:24 PM »
A tad warm in Melbourne, I understand -

http://www.weather.com/sports-rec/tennis-player-hallucinates-faints-australian-open-20140115

If Woogie starts looking like a Charles M. Schulz character, you might want to head back into the house . . .
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

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Offline grumm441

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Offline Dr Goggles

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #4176 on: January 18, 2014, 05:24:46 AM »
We got what you got!

I never took a pic but I will do so tomorrow.

I have a table with a glass top I use for making Carbon sheets.
I do the work and then put another glass plate over it.
I had it out in the sun to "Post Cure".
I put the pyrometer on it and it went to 80*C so I fried two eggs on it for the Jack Russels. :lol:

The Microscopic Mexican Monkey Rat lost her appetite for the duration of the heatwave, the moment it cooled down she became a ravenous monster.....She's fully back to normal now.

Today we had tank day. On The Colonel's urging we tackled "the big job" and set about the re-gear. We last ran a 2.41. We have a 2.28 and a 2.14, we tossed a metaphorical coin and decided we would use the 2.14 and run it hard in the early gears. With the 2.14 we are at 5350@208mph , 5350rpm is our torque peak.

We've got heaps to do.............
Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

http://thespiritofsunshine.blogspot.com/

Current Australian E/GL record holder at 215.041mph

THE LUCKIEST MAN IN SLOW BUSINESS.

Offline Koncretekid

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #4177 on: January 18, 2014, 05:47:16 AM »
Is 208 your target speed?  If so, I'd grab the 2.28 or the 2.41.  Your max hp is going to follow your max torque by 1000-1500 rpm, and hp is what gets the job done.  I think you'll lose too much hp when you shift into high gear, and never recover.
We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
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Offline tauruck

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #4178 on: January 18, 2014, 05:59:40 AM »
I wish you all the best and I hope you get a break with the weather.
I had intentions of doing bunches of work today but it won't happen.

Nice to have a choice on the ratios. It's all related to those gears and I'm pulling for you guys.
 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Offline Dr Goggles

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #4179 on: January 18, 2014, 06:06:29 AM »
Is 208 your target speed?  If so, I'd grab the 2.28 or the 2.41.  Your max hp is going to follow your max torque by 1000-1500 rpm, and hp is what gets the job done.  I think you'll lose too much hp when you shift into high gear, and never recover.

No KK we ran 215 last year , we're hoping for a bit more than that, the motor continues to make power beyond 5350, we'll be running it to 6350. We wont have a chance to set up the new ECM we have so we are just sticking a finger in the wind. If it falls on it's face we'll fit the 2.28 at the lake. We aren't confident of pushing it beyond 6350 and so there's no point running the gears we ran last year.

We'll be shifting into top at about 170mph, the rev/power drop will still be pretty good there.

 :cheers:
Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

http://thespiritofsunshine.blogspot.com/

Current Australian E/GL record holder at 215.041mph

THE LUCKIEST MAN IN SLOW BUSINESS.

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #4180 on: January 18, 2014, 10:00:30 AM »
Is 208 your target speed?  If so, I'd grab the 2.28 or the 2.41.  Your max hp is going to follow your max torque by 1000-1500 rpm, and hp is what gets the job done.  I think you'll lose too much hp when you shift into high gear, and never recover.

No KK we ran 215 last year , we're hoping for a bit more than that, the motor continues to make power beyond 5350, we'll be running it to 6350. We wont have a chance to set up the new ECM we have so we are just sticking a finger in the wind. If it falls on it's face we'll fit the 2.28 at the lake. We aren't confident of pushing it beyond 6350 and so there's no point running the gears we ran last year.

We'll be shifting into top at about 170mph, the rev/power drop will still be pretty good there.

 :cheers:

Doc, do you have timing slips that indicate speeds at different points on the track?  I guess I've only seen your record speeds, and I don't know if the DLRA records these like BNI with speeds at the 2,3,4, etc.

You did do some dyno work a while back - I recall it being a mixed bag, but if you can do some sipherin' and some gozintas, you might be able to determine if you can skip the 2.41s and just roll with the 2.28s.  I know that's against your usual progressive approach, but if you start with the 2.28s and it works, then you've saved yourself the headache of swapping out a pumpkin on the salt.  If it doesn't work, well, you've already allotted the time for a pumpkin swap, so you swap in the 2.41s and give her hell.

Time on the salt is tough to come by, expensive and precious - swapping out a pumpkin takes you out of the seat during prime time.  If you go with the 2.41s, you most certainly will have to allow time for a diff change - if you go with the 2.28s, you might not.  A little bit of calculation with the info you have might make that decision a little easier.

 
My hunch - if everything is up to snuff, with the additional aero you're gathering with the axle fairings, the tire change and past reports from yourself is that the donk will likely push the package past 215 without any problems regardless of the gearset.  

And while I don't know the timeline on the streamliner body, what is clear is that the plan is to pension off the tank body at some point.  Given that events at Gairdner are a weather influenced crap shoot - where the house seems to win an inordinate number of hands - I think you might want to maximize this opportunity.

Because after you've moved on to the streamliner, it will simply gnaw at you if, in the back of your mind you think, "You know, I suspect there might have been a few more in her."  

Waxing philosophical in Beerhaven . . .

Chris
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 11:00:49 AM by Milwaukee Midget »
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline Reverend Hedgash

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #4181 on: January 18, 2014, 11:40:50 AM »
mmm... beerhaven....  I am just having a brew after watching Gravity at the local Imax. Now that is one hell of a ride and I needed beer to recover and think about how glad I didn't get to be an astronaut as I had hoped as a kid.

No heatwave here but I wish I were there.

d

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #4182 on: January 18, 2014, 11:54:14 AM »
I am just having a brew after watching Gravity at the local Imax.

"It's the story of how George Clooney would rather float away into space and die than spend one more minute with a woman his own age."

Tina Fey
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!

Offline Sumner

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #4183 on: January 18, 2014, 12:23:34 PM »
Is 208 your target speed?  If so, I'd grab the 2.28 or the 2.41.  Your max hp is going to follow your max torque by 1000-1500 rpm, and hp is what gets the job done.  I think you'll lose too much hp when you shift into high gear, and never recover.

No KK we ran 215 last year , we're hoping for a bit more than that, the motor continues to make power beyond 5350, we'll be running it to 6350. We wont have a chance to set up the new ECM we have so we are just sticking a finger in the wind. If it falls on it's face we'll fit the 2.28 at the lake. We aren't confident of pushing it beyond 6350 and so there's no point running the gears we ran last year.

We'll be shifting into top at about 170mph, the rev/power drop will still be pretty good there.

 :cheers:

I think I'd vote for the 2.28's also.  Not sure what combo you are running and if you are running a 1:1 final gear or not but with a 2.41 and 28 inch tires and 1:1 4th I get the following using my spreadsheet:

Rear End   Ratio===>   2.41
Tire Diameter    ======>   27.80
Fourth Gear   Ratio ==>   1.00
      
MPH............RPM..In..Fourth

200.....................5831
205.....................5977
210.....................6122
215.....................6268            
220.....................6414

Were you running about 6300 at 215 like above?  If so then with the 2.28 you would have the following:

Rear End   Ratio===>   2.28
Tire Diameter    ======>   27.80
Fourth Gear   Ratio ==>    1.00
      
MPH............RPM..In..Fourth

210....................5792
215....................5930
220....................6068
225....................6206
230....................6344
235....................6482

215 mph to 230 mph at 6300 is a pretty big jump in HP required to do it.  Now let's look at the 2.14 gears:

Rear End   Ratio===>   2.14
Tire Diameter    ======>   27.80
Fourth Gear   Ratio ==>    1.00
      
MPH............RPM..In..Fourth

220......................5695
225......................5825
230......................5954
235......................6084
240......................6213
245......................6343
250......................6472

Now 6300 is over 240 and 215 that you ran is 5566 rpm.  I'd go with the 2.28's to start like Chris suggested.  I think he had a good plan.

The above info can be figured on the spreadsheet here in just a couple seconds....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/bville-spreadsheet-index.html#Four%20Speed%20Car

I've also added another feature to that spreadsheet.  If you know from your dyno runs how much HP you had at say 6300 and you ran 215 you can use the spreadsheet that figures HP requirements at a different speed based on a know one.....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/bville-spreadsheet-index.html#Horse%20Power%20Needed

...to figure the HP requirements to run 100 mph.  Then put that HP figure into the first spreadsheet for speeds at different rpm's and it will tell you the required HP needed for all speeds from 30 mph up.  It would tell you the HP you would need to go from your 215 to say 230.  The nice thing is that if you have done a dyno pull and you know your HP curve at different rpms you can use the spreadsheet and see how much hp you need at a speed after a shift.  The spreadsheet will show you the rpm in the next gear.  You can compare it to the dyno numbers and see if you have the HP at the new rpm to accelerate and probably have an idea if the acceleration will be slow or faster.  I'm going to post more about this addition in the "Formula Forum" soon,

Sum


Offline Stan Back

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Re: Australian Belly Tank
« Reply #4184 on: January 18, 2014, 12:38:51 PM »
A few years ago we set the record at SpeedWeek at 206.  That was at about 7500 RPM, supposedly our peak HP.  For World Finals, we made a 3% gear change -- from 3.10 to 3.00 -- and I had it all decided that we could run 210, especially in the better air at WF.  I think we made three runs, "leaning" on it until our Stone Age EGTs suggested we stop.  The last run, we finally topped 200 in the five.  We made a good decision on not blowing it up just to qualify on our own record.

The next year we made a bunch of car changes and finally went 210.  That 3% change was a bear.  Not as easy as it looked.
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