Author Topic: ERC 110 octane fuel at Speedweek?  (Read 25745 times)

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Offline wfojohn

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Re: ERC 110 octane fuel at Speedweek?
« Reply #60 on: September 10, 2010, 09:27:05 AM »
Hi Rick,
I looked on your website for distributors, did I over look the link? Anyway, who is closest to south middle Tennessee, I wanted to check on a small amount for my engine dyno for this winter.

Offline SPARKY

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Re: ERC 110 octane fuel at Speedweek?
« Reply #61 on: September 10, 2010, 09:38:43 AM »
If I am not mistaken you can buy 5 gallons, a small drum or a 55 gallon drum--he can ship it right out . We  had great service in the past.
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline jimmy six

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Re: ERC 110 octane fuel at Speedweek?
« Reply #62 on: September 10, 2010, 10:03:34 AM »
I've had Rick ship me a 15 gallon drum for dyno and test runs. I returned the drum to Bonneville. He is great to work with.............JD
First GMC 6 powered Fuel roadster over 200, with 2 red hats. Pit crew for Patrick Tone's Super Stock #49 Camaro

Offline Rick Byrnes

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Re: ERC 110 octane fuel at Speedweek?
« Reply #63 on: September 10, 2010, 11:25:45 AM »
I'm in agreement with Sparky and JD
If we want to test with the right fuel, Rick can ship anywhere.
For testing in Michigan I had ERC ship 15 gallons to me.  It wasn't cheap to ship, but well worth the effort and cost.
Now I don't worry too much as I think Methanol is pretty consistent.

I just need some cheap POP!


Rick

Offline DallasV

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Re: ERC 110 octane fuel at Speedweek?
« Reply #64 on: September 10, 2010, 12:19:10 PM »
We've had consistant fuel with ERC for 22 years. The last 2 decades of records have been set with ERC fuel. We have set 6 gas roadster records in the last 10 years using ERC 110. I feel the reason there is no other fuel vendor at the salt is the same reason NASCAR only uses Sunoco...consistancy. Rick has done the LSR racer right and has been very helpful to us. When we get fuel Rick asks us what we want, my response is always the same. "this is what we're running you tell us what we want" and he does and it works. Rick has always helped us and is dedicated to LSR so I thought I'd chime in.
Records or parts, I didn't come all this way not to break something.

Offline ERC RACING FUELS

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Re: ERC 110 octane fuel at Speedweek?
« Reply #65 on: September 10, 2010, 12:52:08 PM »
Hi Rick,
I looked on your website for distributors, did I over look the link? Anyway, who is closest to south middle Tennessee, I wanted to check on a small amount for my engine dyno for this winter.

WFO JOHN:

We would ship your order out of either Connecticut or San Lorenzo, Ca dependent upon which fuel you ordered.  Most orders go out the day they are ordered or the following day.  All of our shipments go via ground truck freight.  We do no UPS package freight because of the expense and complication.  Credit cards, checks, cash accepted.

Thanks for your inquiry.

Rick Gold
ERC Fuels-owner

Offline jl222

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Re: ERC 110 octane fuel at Speedweek?
« Reply #66 on: September 10, 2010, 01:18:10 PM »
 
  Rick...Glad to see you here. Could you explain the difference in  110  and A-8C or how it reacts differently.
  Were happy with the A-8C as we ran a best ever 280 21/4 and 294 first mile speed.
  Also is the left over fuel in my tank still good from speedweek, or how soon should we get it in a sealed container.

                J Langlo :cheers:

                         

Offline 1212FBGS

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Re: ERC 110 octane fuel at Speedweek?
« Reply #67 on: September 10, 2010, 03:27:03 PM »
What would have to be done so that another fuel suppliers could sell at the salt.?That way racers could have more than one choice.

we had a new vendor at speedweek this year i think he sold 4 tires (total).... you guys have no idea what a great service Rick is doing for us by coming out and supplying our needs.... I greatly appreciate his effort and support, on and off the track
Kent

Offline nrhs sales

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Re: ERC 110 octane fuel at Speedweek?
« Reply #68 on: September 10, 2010, 04:26:40 PM »
I am with Kent on this.  No need to have 2 fuel guys.

Offline nrhs sales

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Re: ERC 110 octane fuel at Speedweek?
« Reply #69 on: September 10, 2010, 05:06:33 PM »
I noticed that no apology seems to have been given to Rick from a certain racer ( wfojohn) who stated ERC fuel was at fault for engine failures in the 80s even though it now appears ERC fuel was not used. Very un-cool!! :x

Offline ol38y

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Re: ERC 110 octane fuel at Speedweek?
« Reply #70 on: September 10, 2010, 05:12:58 PM »
I also see no need for any changes to the fuel supplier at Bville. In the few times I've been to the salt Rick has always been very helpfull. He always asks for some engine specs and then gives his reccomendation. I've had no reason to second guess his choice yet...  :cheers:

Larry
Larry Cason
Bakersfield,CA    It's a dry heat!

2010 BUB 1350 M-PG record
2012 Speedweek  1350 A-PG record 169.975
2014 El Mirage Dry Lake  1350 A-PG  172.651

Offline Richard 2

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Re: ERC 110 octane fuel at Speedweek?
« Reply #71 on: September 10, 2010, 05:34:49 PM »
That was some really good info that Rick shared with us. I found his information interesting and useful. So thanks Rick good job.  :cheers:
219.648 mph F/BFMR 2010 Record
4 cylinder Esslinger
Could of had a V8

Offline ERC RACING FUELS

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Re: ERC 110 octane fuel at Speedweek?
« Reply #72 on: September 10, 2010, 09:21:32 PM »

  Rick...Glad to see you here. Could you explain the difference in  110  and A-8C or how it reacts differently.
  Were happy with the A-8C as we ran a best ever 280 21/4 and 294 first mile speed.
  Also is the left over fuel in my tank still good from speedweek, or how soon should we get it in a sealed container.

                J Langlo :cheers:

                         

JOHN,

There are several key differences. I'll list them and then give information/explanation related to each:

-OCTANE NUMBERS
-DENSITY (specific gravity)
-OXYGENATION
-% AROMATICS
-T.E.L.
-REID VAPOR PRESSURE (GROSS VOLATILITY)

OCTANE NUMBERS:  The Research (F!) octane on ERC110K is, typically, 116 - 118.  Motor (F2) octane is typically 105 - 108.  A8C has a Research (F1) Octane that exceeds the top of the ASTM (American Society of Testing & Materials) scale which stops at 120.3.  Tests we've done with blends and dilutions allow us to interpolate the (F1) Octane at approx 126.  Motor F2) Octane for A8C is 115 - 116.  I believe we could legitimately claim an R+M/2 Octane of 120+.  But to keep it simple I usually call out the R+M number at 118.  Obviously, on a side by side comparative basis, the A8C is much, much higher in Octane Number.  Keep in mind that, for some applications, 1/2 an octane point is significant.

Note that in our spec brochures and the fuels info posted on our website www.ercracingfuels.com, the specifications listed are always typical specs. Also note that we are in the process of making some changes, updates to these numbers and offering some new blends as well.

DENSITY (specific gravity):
The density of A8C expressed in specific gravity terms is significantly higher than 110K.  110K will typically come in at .735 - .740 specific gravity (or) 6.119 lbs/gal.  A8C normally checks at .744 - .749 specific gravity (or) 6.235 lbs. gal.  We've found during over 40 years of test blending and experimentation, as well as observing other motor fuel developments in racing, that density has a powerful impact on the way a supercharged or turbocharged engine performs; particularly with regard to the direct cooling by the fuel of the typically overheated combustion chambers, valves, seats, plugs, etc of a highly boosted engine.  The more dense the fuel, the better job it does of direct conduction cooling as a function of fuel molecules in the charge air impinging on hot parts.  Increase the density of a fuel and you'll always get a net increase in conductive cooling coefficient and better looking plugs, valves, valve seats, etc.

We graphically demonstrated the value of increased density to the Jaguar folks a few years ago when they were running a turbo engined IMSA GTP car.  They had been using a competitors fuel of higher claimed octane number (a fuel actually quite similar to our A19A) and were simply amazed at the difference that proper formulation with respect to fuel density and a few other details could make in their engines.

It's worthy of note that when Honda ran heavily turbocharged engines in Formula 1, making nearly 1200HP from 90 cu.in., that they used a fuel so heavily laced with aromatics that their finished specific gravity was above .800 (or) 6.660 lbs/gal.; and the fuel was limited by Formula 1 rules at the time to 104 Research Octane.  Density matters.  More on aromatics further on.

OXYGENATION: ERC110K is a very mildly oxygenated fuel at 1% net oxy by mass.  Note that street fuels are typically oxygenated at slightly less than 3% net oxy by mass.  The oxygenate used in 110K has the effect of accelerating the burn slightly and creating clean, complete combustion. The slight increase in power that it offers is simply incidental to the other effects we're trying to achieve with this formulation.

A8C uses no oxygenated components at all.  Although oxygenation typically improves power slightly at the level used in 110K.  I decided against oxygenate for the A8 series of fuels on the theory that, if power improvement is needed in a boosted or nitrous engine, simply turn up the boost or increase nitrous flow.  A8C is designed only to support combustion and protect parts with no attempt to boost power through fuel formulation.

Also note that we are working on the latest formula iteration in the A8 series, A8D.  We may include a minimal oxygenate percentage in this new fuel and we may bring this fuel to Bonneville next year.  Those decisions have not been made at this time.

AROMATIC PERCENTAGE:  Aromatic chemicals can be very useful in a fuel blended for highly boosted engines.  These chemicals all descend from the "Benzene Ring" family of chemicals and provide increased density, conductive cooling, and research octane number to A8C.  Selecting the proper members of this family is crucial to creating performance improvement.  As compared to ERC110K, the aromatic fraction in A8C is significantly higher.

TETRAETHYL LED (TEL): ERC110K is leaded to a level very much typical of most of the "110" products in the market place, approx 4.0 grams/gallon.  This is a level approved by the surgeon general and generally accepted by the motor fuel industry.  A8C is leaded to a much higher level.  This is significant because led is that additive that is most effective at creating octane number.  It's additional volume in A8C gives much increased resistance to heat and pressure; hence much higher octane numbers. 

REID VAPOR PRESSURE (RVP):
  RVP is a gross measure of a fuel formulation's ability to volatalize and hence to ignite.  Street fuels run the range from 7.0PSI in the summer to 13.0PSI in the winter in areas with very cold winter climates.  ERC110K typically checks at about 6.0 PSI.  A8C will typically check at about 4.5PSI.  The lower RVP enhances pumpability, reduces vapor/liquid ratios in incoming fuel streams, and maintains the liquid nature of the fuel at high under-blower discharge temperatures; all of which contributes to highly boosted engine longevity and performance.  Basically, A8C will stay liquid when required to do so and does a much better job of handling heat than other fuels; even than 110K.

It's also worth mentioning that other competing fuels in the marketplace are constrained by artificially low dielectric ceilings as mandated by certain sanctioning bodies; NHRA being the most notable example.  These mandates have the effect of limiting formulations in order to create compliance with the mandates.  These limitations can very adversely impact specialty fuels like A8C; and we can see in some of our competitors formulations that they, in fact, do.  When ERC brings fuels to Bonneville, we operate under no artificially implemented constraints on formulation brought into effect by archaic sanctioning body thinking and/or marketplace protection efforts on behalf of some favored fuel company.  Our formulations are designed to use all available modern materials and to be application specific to LSR engine requirements.  My opinion, for what it's worth, is that you can't offer the best possible fuels to your customers if unnecessary, artificial restraints tie the hands of the formulator.

John, I hope the above answers your questions.  I've you have others please let me know and I'll be happy to answer them.

Best regards and thanks for your inquiry.

Rick Gold
ERC Fuels-owner



Offline interested bystander

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Re: ERC 110 octane fuel at Speedweek?
« Reply #73 on: September 10, 2010, 10:23:50 PM »
For some of the sceptics about the quality of ERC vs the HEAVILY marketed VP fuels.

Remember this -  VP has PAID the drag race associations for exclusivity requiring their competitors to use VP fuel. (Remember the $100,000 fine Don Schumacher, multi entant NHRA racer, had to pay NHRA a $100,00 fine for having nitro in his trailer for future testing that wasn't NHRA/VP).

 Don imports nitro just like VP-probably from the same Chinese supplier.  In fact, to anybody else,  he sells the same fuel in FULL drums for the same price NHRA/VP sells 40 gallons to NHRA racers.

Don't be afraid of ERC.
5 mph in pit area (clothed)

Offline jl222

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Re: ERC 110 octane fuel at Speedweek?
« Reply #74 on: September 10, 2010, 10:25:28 PM »
 
  Thanks Rick...that explains things more than I expected.
   It looks like you gave such a detailed answer that you forgot about my question about [is my gas still good in my tank from speedweek and how soon soon should we get it in a sealed container]?


                   JL222

                
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 10:27:59 PM by jl222 »