Just wondering

[Malcolm UK]

I have never blamed those who others see as being 'victimised'.  

Should you understand the process then it can be straightforward to reach those with responsibility and even those who might be able to change websites if they have the correct data.

All I have suggested is that in each case it is a failure of a National organisation (in the cases quoted for car drivers it is an American organisation) to keep their records up to date.  This has been the focus of my explanations and comments.  

If the full text of the FIA rules are read, then the paragraph, that Louise Noeth has selectively quoted in her articles, opens with the statement that the ASN shall keep records of all National and International records set within its jurisdiction.  So why should ACCUS FIA need to go to the centre for help with Bonneville record speeds?  By all means you may need to get the website writer changing the errors and filling in the gaps, but he/she has to have the data to work with.

If ACCUS FIA had been doing what is described in the Appendix D rules (even if it was delegated to one of two likely member organisations) then there would have been no need to even talk to the secretariat in Paris.  All the paperwork on each succesful Bonneville attempt would have passed through their hands any way (passed upwards from the member organisation who conducted the attempt - pick one from two in the US) with an appropriate sum of money from the racer concerned.

As to the AMA - they have to fulfill the role that their members expect of them as a National body.  Yes thay may represent the host country of the USA when there are FIM records to be adjudged, but there is an FIM steward present at the attempts from another country to assist.

The SCTA have not been the governing body for FIA or FIM speed attempts at Bonneville, although they had (until last year) hosted such attempts during their World Finals meeting which has saved racers considerable sums of dollars.  Why do you suggest a 'conspiracy' against an organisation whose role is a facilitator.  They (the SCTA) were never the intended governing body in stewardship of FIA attempts.  (But that is part of another argument).

[JackD]

The argument seems to have strayed from the original question.
The facts related to the FIA are correct in large part but not exact. The SCTA has accommodated the authorized representative of ACCUS that in turn reports to the FIA at Speedweek also with various results. The last FIA record I set was under NHRA as a member of ACCUS and the signed certificate was supplied as prescribed. Then it fell apart at the FIA level. USAC does a good job also but it is curious that when they were called upon to investigate the problem their was no resolve and everything sorta just stopped.
I guess the question about that is did they reach the desired point that only elevated the victims cause or were was there no solution. I would think the problem might have been better identified and the solution found instead of stopped at a point that is short of the end. Maybe the end was short of proper recognition for other reasons as seems to be the case with FIM also.
Ya know the rules are pretty simple and as long as you don't change them without due consideration even the simple can follow them. But when ill considered changes occur to benefit a very few, that is simple to follow also.

With 349 views from just this forum and lots of other communiction, that tells me a lot of people care.
I hope it is enough of the right ones.

[rosemeyer]

Malcolm UK.
It's funny how you can live in cloud cuckoo-land and still insist that it's the fault of a National organization if International records are not recognized (certified, listed) by the FIA.

In almost all cases in disputes concerning Bonneville racers, an international record was attempted at Bonneville during or at the end of a SCTA event. A permit was obtained, fees paid, officials from NHRA or USAC present, ACCUS fully aware, in brief everything done by the book.

The record was broken, ACCUS was satisfied that all the conditions were met and an application containing all the necessary documents was forwarded to the FIA in Paris to be examined by the Record Commission. Then... nothing. One month.... three, one year after, still nothing.

When the competitor(s) allerted SCTA, they were referred to the ACCUS which PROVED them that the documentation had been dispatched ON TIME (there are time limits attached to the procedure) and had been RECEIVED on time too.
When ACCUS made representation, inquired, NOTHING.

It's all well and good for you to say that the ASN (ACCUS in this case) "keep records of all national and International records set within its jurisdiction", they CANNOT give FIA international or world record certificates, can they? they CANNOT amend/update the FIA record list, can they? They are only an intermediary in the chain and if the files get lost, or the commission don't sit, or if for any other reason FIA don't want to play its part, it's a dead end, isn't it?

The ACCUS has come clean out of this; they have done their job, that you keep implying they don't, without knowing the facts. In fact, those who have obtained redress, can thank the ACCUS for it. It takes a bit more than "get the website writer changing the errors and filling in the gaps" (sic) to do that! If it's was left to our American friends, they would have solved this shenanigan long time ago: they are usually pretty slick to organize anything. But unfortunately, they have to rely on good old European FIA to get what they deserve, and Europe let them down.

It's in view of this, and to protect its members against further rip-off, that SCTA/BNI decided to take over international and world records during ITS events. When you read that months ago, you went completely off tangent, saying that SCTA wanted to take over FIA and starting a malicious campaign against LAN.

[Malcolm UK]

The President of ACCUS is the Chairperson of the FIA Records Commission.  He only had to talk to himself to get the procedures in place for records set in the USA.

Read Articles 230, 231 and 232 & 234 to see how important the ASN role is.  The ASN can be seen to be the FIA until the final adjudication by the records commission on the documents and reports provided.

The tag line for Louise Ann Noeths article was "SCTA/BNI poised to Replace FIA As World Record Authority".  Were they her words?  They would not be mine.  

There is an American in charge already - how many more are needed?

[rosemeyer]

As far as land speed records are concerned, I would like Americans to be in charge of EVERYTHING!  
They are the best at making rules (I can hear Jack D chuckling here!), organizing events, building cars - and bikes, promoting, administrating, etc... They also have the best venues.
The sooner the Record Commission (or whatever you want to call it) has its headquarters in California and we can forget about the inefficient European bureaucrats, the better!! I know it's only a dream.

[JackD]

More rules are not always better rules.
Let performance raise the bar, not keep it open all night until everybody is drunk.

[landracing]

It's in view of this, and to protect its members against further rip-off, that SCTA/BNI decided to take over international and world records during ITS events. When you read that months ago, you went completely off tangent, saying that SCTA wanted to take over FIA and starting a malicious campaign against LAN.

What is "LAN"  Local Area Network???


Jon

[JackD]

ANN