Just wondering

[JackD]

What ever happened to the Corbin,Vesco, and Campos records under AMA that were forgotten but not gone ?

[Glen]

Jack, when you start to wonder, it usually means you are ploting someting
but it keeps you off the streets of Sandyeggo and TJ. lol and waiting.

[landracing]

THe question has been asked and asked and still no answer.

Event AMA certificates have been provided and no answer or no change has been submitted.

People spent good money thru the FIM and AMA to have these records and it's a disgrace that they are not included.

Jon

[JackD]

The listing was published in Sept. 2004 and the error by omission was brought to their attention.
It was repeated and the error continued into the next event and publication the next year. This was not a typo and the first shot over the bow was in early 2004.
The Electric record of Mike Corbin of 165.367 set in 74 went unlisted and was just replaced by another at 30 something . That is a little shy of the mark.
Two of the over 300 records by Vesco and Campos are not listed but have World wide recognition.
I think the error was in the omission and that takes away from the creditability of the event.
I think they deserve better.
I will stand outside the door beating the drum for only so long and then comes the electronic media.
When I wonder something it is usually a measure of do you care.
I know I do.
Jack

OBTW; With 72 views in about 14 hours over nite, that is probably the % of bikers that you would expect to view it here.
Now we will see how many care.

[1212FBGS]

who do we need to talk 2 too get them listed?
kr

[landracing]

My guess the starting point would be the AMA since they establish and maintain the records. I would start with sue mason.

Sue Mason
Asst. to Sr. Director-AMA Sports/FIM Coordinator
American Motorcyclist Association
13515 Yarmouth Dr.
Pickerington, OH 43147
1 (800) AMA-JOIN
1 (614) 856-1900, ext. 1244
smason@ama-cycle.org

Jon

[JackD]

THe question has been asked and asked and still no answer.

Event AMA certificates have been provided and no answer or no change has been submitted.

People spent good money thru the FIM and AMA to have these records and it's a disgrace that they are not included.

Jon

It is a life time achievement for anyone involved and to have it dismissed like that is a crime against them, their memory, and the future of the sport.

With over 150 views in 24 hours on just 1 forum "The plop is thickening."
Should I go to Europe next or maybe south to Australia and NZ ? How about east to Japan ?
The publishers should pick it up soon enough.
"The light of day brings some out of the woodwork and scatters others."

[Malcolm UK]

Following from the work done on sorting the FIA record gaps and errors as reported on this webiste, the person to send on this one is surely Land Speed Louise?

Once the records are correct the case can then be put forward in a series of articles for the SCTA to take over the records from the AMA.

How do you find the AMA records on their website?

[rosemeyer]

Inna curacies on record lists and the failure of different bodies to keep them up to date is a major plague in record breaking.

The scandal of the FIA not keeping a proper account of records has been largely discussed on this site and probably caused the SCTA/BNI to divorce from it and sanction world records independently.

I was not aware that the FIM was following path but this thread seems to indicate that's the case too.

In the past (72/73?) the FIM unilaterally erased from its list plenty of records when they changed the calculation of average speed.

There are major flaws with inn adequate record lists:
-those who genuinely establish records don't obtain recognition.
-those who want to challenge a record don't know exactly what is the target.
-records loose their value and organizations their credibility.
-it's a financial rip-off.

[JackD]

Changing rules as technology dictates better safety and more accurate methods is going to be a part of the sport. Dustbins are a product of that and increased requirements for rider safety are the result. Sometimes a decision will change a method so much that a record should be retired. The passenger on the sidecar is an example of that.
The SCTA is even guilty of that with a proposal to put road racer bikes into Class-A which might have some merit, but leave the existing records by them in M class because they don't know what to do.  Another is to restrict Class-M bikes to the fairing the came with stock and prohibit after market fairings from M unless it came that way as Production. A sportster for example that never came with a fairing can never run M- PS because it was not stock. But all of the existing records set under different rules remain.
That is an example of administrative screw ups that can happen unless more people get a chance to see what is going on.
The worst case than that is the elimination of standing records for what seems to be financial gain.
The towing regulation imposed by FIM and appealed by the rocket guys is another knee jerk requirement with no basis in fact. The Vesco and Campos World record featured tow starts that were well outside the run up area and did not have the slingshot effect that was mentioned on behalf of a single rider in the US.That allowance was a mistake and the rule suggestion that would have eliminated that potential fell on deaf ears with the AMA and FIM.
The publication of FIA problems in an unrelated magazine was not entirely correct and only a few knew the difference. But the theme was correct and gave some good reasons to do it another way. I would have expect to see a response from the FIA on the subject if they cared, but I guess they don't.
A lot of people do care and push where ever they can by whatever means they have available. If the soft method doesn't get the desired result they will begin to shout until prov en wrong.
Louise is on the case as are others.
This does not have to be a war but if you choose to fall on your sword, you will be remembered for it.
Hell, that might even be the case for me.
 We shall see.

[landracing]

Malcolm,

Here are the current AMA records.

http://www.landracing.com/events/bub/AMA-Records-Book-pub05.pdf

And these are the new 2005 records set for the AMA.
http://www.landracing.com/events/bub/2005/05amarecords.htm

Jon

[Malcolm UK]

Thanks Jon.  Are these taken from the AMA website or does the organisation send them to you?

Are the AMA classes now following those of the FIM - which could account for some records being 'retired' or frozen, as today's racers cannot challeneg them directly.

What was the specification of the Corbin electric bike for example as, before '05, the most recent FIM solo rules put on an upper weight limit and bikes were not as fast as 165 mph.

[Malcolm UK]

Rosemeyer - The common link for poor record keeping by four or two wheeled governing bodies seems to be on the continent with the most reason to complain - USA.  Whether it is ACCUS FIA or AMA.  And the late Don Vesco seems to have been a 'victim' of both governing bodies in the US.

JackD - I doubt that the FIA representatives outside the USA log on to websites such as these.  But I would have hoped that at a 'local' level American's from the governing bodies would be watching the banter.  Or is that a touch simplistic?

[JackD]

Gee, where to start. Electric cars have weight limits to determine the classes and are reasonable. You would expect the bike rules to follow. Corbin's record that should be included in the AMA listing and was done under their flag and should have been considered along with the slow one and perhaps different classes would be appropriate.
That is a single case to demonstrate a larger problem.
The 2 others cited were changed in FIM without prior notice or comment by those involved with those records. But at least the are still listed however the single class that was formerly listed as the "World's Fastest  Motorcycle" with FIM is now divided by type of engine as are the Solo Bikes.
There was a reason the "Top of the Sport" unlimited liners were all out together and it was valid. The Yamaha 2 stroke got beat by the Kawi, and the HD beat both of them. The FIM records that I mention were all done under AMA also and previously listed .
Now and with the publication used for the 2004 AMA event they are gone from the planet as if they never existed. Even the SCTA Club list them, but AMA does not. Do we see a pattern ?
It was treated and brought up as a possible typo in the beginning but has deteriorated into someone is not being honest.
LSR is one of the smallest motor sports with exposure to match but that doesn't mean those few enjoy getting stepped on.
And in spite of it's size relative to a lot of other stuff it features some industry leaders that depend on the satisfaction of a level playing field a lot more than the money that seems to influence some decisions.
The no towing rule was not only ill considered but didn't last very long and then when is was allowed they repeated the mistake. A suggestion to the FIM and AMA on how to manage it was disregarded with the predictable result.
I have contracted for and officiated for AMA. FIM,FIA, and SCTA events and I am quite familiar with how they work and where they fail. Club level events get too big for their britches and World level bodies get really sloppy.
Somebody is watching and somebody cares.
Lets hope they can survive themselves.

[rosemeyer]

Malcolm UK. Here you go again, blaming the victims for their misfortune! Representation HAS been made to the FIA for LSR racers who didn't get their records ratified, receive their certificate or were left missing from the 'official' record list, by the ACCUS itself!
The whole thing was triggered by the ACCUS following complains from SCTA racers. We are not talking here about lone voices, but the FIA reps in the States!
Everything fell on death ears. While some records set in the USA (long distance) were acknowledged by FIA, strangely those held at Bonneville under the SCTA organization have been largely ignored.
Which makes many think that it is something political rather than anything else.
Now, if you offer YOUR services to unravel the plot, you are welcome.