Author Topic: tires  (Read 27557 times)

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Offline WildBro

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Re: tires
« Reply #120 on: August 26, 2010, 09:16:52 AM »
... it wouldn't hurt to have an idea of the number of motorcycles requiring 200 mph + tires from all known racing venues, East and West, and the number of replacements needed during the racing seasons, so they can pencil out a forecast for the market.  

Lets not get us milers involved in this.  We are fine the way we are.

Dunlop @ Speedweek said they are building a 300mph drag tire and can convert it to LSR.  Sounded like this was in the works for the near future.

Bill
aka: Tenno Celeritas

Offline nrhs sales

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Re: tires
« Reply #121 on: August 26, 2010, 10:35:01 AM »
Noonan,

I think your idea is the right one. Just get a tire manufacturer to go along with it for a reasonable cost. I would think if there was only 1 approved tire that everybody had to run would really simplify things and would keep costs down in the future. Just like Nascar does now.

Offline WildBro

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Re: tires
« Reply #122 on: September 07, 2010, 07:01:44 PM »
Well, BUB is over.... where is all the tire results??
Any failures? any at all??

Bill
aka: Tenno Celeritas

Offline nrhs sales

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Re: tires
« Reply #123 on: September 07, 2010, 07:45:40 PM »
None that I saw but then again no bikes went over 240 mph.

Offline fredvance

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Re: tires
« Reply #124 on: September 07, 2010, 09:17:27 PM »
Most of the tires that blistered at SW were sub 200 runs.
WORLDS FASTEST PRODUCTION MOTORCYCLE 213.470
Vance&Forstall Racing
WOS 2011 235+MPH
Engine by Knecum, Tuned by Johnny Cheese.
Sponsers Catalyst Composites, Johnny Cheese Perf, Knecum Racing Engines, Murray Headers, Carpenter Racing

Offline donpearsall

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Re: tires
« Reply #125 on: September 07, 2010, 09:56:03 PM »
My Bridgestone BT-003 RACING tire went into automatic deflation mode after about 6 runs. It showed wear, but no damage. I showed it to Drew and the only thing we could figure was lack of quality control. There must be a pinhole in it somewhere. I have not had time to really look at it.

Don
550 hp 2003 Suzuki Hayabusa Land Speed Racer

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: tires
« Reply #126 on: September 08, 2010, 12:21:32 AM »
This is a question from a slow guy.  I am curious, that is all.

My experience with road racing tires is that they come in many different flavors, soft, intermediate, and hard.  Then there are slicks and grooved rain tires.  Tire care is an issue, too.  A fresh new tire is vastly different than one of the same brand and type that sits in a car trunk during the off-season.

Has anyone found a variety of racing tire that works better than any other?   

Offline firemanjim

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Re: tires
« Reply #127 on: September 09, 2010, 11:12:07 AM »
Well, BUB is over.... where is all the tire results??
Any failures? any at all??

Bill

Greg (Maj)here on Jims login 
i chunked one,return after the 229, realy wanted a 230 slip and was spinning lots ,scta spec med/hard race rubber at 50 psi
and i heard of one other racer doing similar but not sure which tire
Bonneville 2001,2002,2003,2004,and NO stinking 2005,DLRA 2006, next?
Well,sure can't complain about 2008--6 records over 200 and 5 hats from Bonneville,Bubs, and El Mirage for the team!

Offline k.h.

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Re: tires
« Reply #128 on: September 09, 2010, 12:18:55 PM »
A quote from an email this morning in response to my inquiry regarding the availability of used tire testing machines:

As an alternative to buying a machine; there are some companies that have
test machine capable of 300 mph (our lab capability is only 225 mph).
Perhaps we could help you locate a machine that you could rent for your
trials.

Also, we have in our lab a no-load free-spin machine that can free-spin a
tire up to 500 mph. We have used this machine to qualify tires for use on
the salt flats previously. You would have to check with the governing body
to see if you need to test under load or test without load. If they only
require a tire integrity test at high speed with no load, we can do this in
our lab. Charges for such tests are in the range of $150 to $ 250 per tire.


Forty years ago I worked on building a set of tire test machines for a large company, their name started with a "G."  I was hoping, what with the collapse of industry here, that a used machine might be rusting somewhere but available cheap.  But at these prices, it may be worth a look.  Now, the tire testing in Montana by some LSR competitors, I recall that was free-spin.  If it's good enough for the sanctioning orgs, I'd like to shave a few sizes of ZR, buff the nomenclature off the sidewalls, and be the "re-manufacturer" of a set of narrow 18-inch.  Spin them up to 300 and see if they crap out.  Would documentation on the process, complete w/video, have any "traction" with the governing bodies?
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.  But in practice, there is.--Jan L. A. Van de Snepscheut

Offline Rick Byrnes

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Re: tires
« Reply #129 on: September 09, 2010, 01:05:02 PM »
As I mentioned several months ago, Joe Law, when he retired from LSR with every record he went after, had a tire testing machine that would spin tires. 
It was for sale "cheap" according to a conversation with Joe a couple of years ago.

If you really are interested in testing your own tires have at it.

Looks to me though with all the discussion amongst you motorbike guys, that the problem looks like spinning the tire against the salt, not just centrifugal force that may be generated by high speed.

Rick

Offline k.h.

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Re: tires
« Reply #130 on: September 09, 2010, 01:24:02 PM »
That's the difference.  Running the tires up to speed against a load would give a better indication of radial stress resistance.  However, there is no accounting for tire spin on the drum surface to reflect tires spinning on salt.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.  But in practice, there is.--Jan L. A. Van de Snepscheut

Offline 1212FBGS

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Re: tires
« Reply #131 on: September 09, 2010, 03:48:47 PM »
centrifugal force affects the tire at the rim bead area lifting the tire off of the bead causing air leakage... the lighter race spec tire has not had that problem.... The Bridgestone tires are lighter than Dunlops.... the tire damage we have see has been blistering of the tread surface...... absolutely and only caused by heat.... a free spun tire testing does not develop heat to recreate the problems we are having.... a loaded tire experiences carcuss distortion as well as surface contact both developing heat..... to help determine and recreate the problems we are exhibiting the tire must be loaded and spun..
Kent

Offline k.h.

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Re: tires
« Reply #132 on: September 09, 2010, 05:04:34 PM »
Last week I ran across more notes from conversations with Marvin Rifchen 6 years ago.  Some non-radial stuff included about numbers of cord layers to increase stiffness and keep the beads from moving in on the rims, along with the wire in the bead to resist centrifugal growth. 

For free-spinning, it would be just as easy to do some calculations and rig up an attachment to the PTO on the big tractor down on the farm.  The quote above is from STL in Massilon, OH, if any interested parties or folk from tire committees have interest in direct contact w/o a post whore like me as a filter.  <fm--at--stllabs.com>
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.  But in practice, there is.--Jan L. A. Van de Snepscheut

Offline Grandpa Jones

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Re: tires
« Reply #133 on: September 09, 2010, 06:55:49 PM »
centrifugal force affects the tire at the rim bead area lifting the tire off of the bead causing air leakage... the lighter race spec tire has not had that problem.... The Bridgestone tires are lighter than Dunlops.... the tire damage we have see has been blistering of the tread surface...... absolutely and only caused by heat.... a free spun tire testing does not develop heat to recreate the problems we are having.... a loaded tire experiences carcuss distortion as well as surface contact both developing heat..... to help determine and recreate the problems we are exhibiting the tire must be loaded and spun..
Kent


Thank you Kent! Much quality info there, made it worth wading through all these posts.

Cheers,

Dave

Offline 1212FBGS

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Re: tires
« Reply #134 on: September 09, 2010, 07:34:37 PM »
rigging up a machine to free spin is a piece of cake.... we could actually spin/load test on our dyno up to 200mph but the bearings would need to be serviced frequently.....