Author Topic: tires  (Read 27558 times)

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Offline maj

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tires
« on: August 18, 2010, 01:02:17 AM »
Suppose someone has to ask  :-D

Drew your opinions would be highly valued  :cheers:

In light of the speedweek tire issues
Are the z rated tires we used last year still suitable for this year AMA and FIM ??


new regs

June 30th 2010
AMA has releases some rule changes regarding Tires and Aerodynamics:

For clarification, please make the following change to the current 2010 BUB Supplemental Regulations.
Replace rule 2Q, page 23, which states:
“The rider has the sole responsibility of ensuring tires are rated for the appropriate speed and for inspecting the condition of tires before and after each run.”
With the new rule:
“The rider has the sole responsibility of ensuring tires are rated for the appropriate speed and for inspecting the condition of tires before and after each run.”
As a result of the rapid evolution of technology and the increased speed that it brings, it is recommended that when choosing tires for the event, the rider choose a set that is rated for speeds higher than the class record. Due to the changing technology of tires it is also recommended that if the rider has any questions he/she should contact the tire manufacture to ensure that they are using a tire that meets the speed requirements needed. Riders may also contact BUB Racing at (530) 477-7490 with questions regarding tires and how to locate special tires.



Offline tricktom1

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Re: tires
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2010, 10:18:54 PM »
I'm curious too?
TexasMile 261.5 MPH
http://www.houstonmile.com/

Offline joea

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Re: tires
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2010, 11:09:35 PM »
...given the AMA position:  " ..rider..should contact the tire manufacture to ensure that they are using a tire that meets the speed requirements needed"...

I NEVER received a response from AMA or FIM steward/scrutineer regarding what tires are acceptable
for speeds over 240...250...and over 265....(except lsr 300 mph tires)...after inquiring months ago...and
following up with communication with BUB/AMA officials...........

so if the AMA statement to be believed.....

anyone contact a motorcycle tire manufacturer and and have them say zr radials (or any motorcycle tire they manufacture) of dot or race spec "meet speed requirements" over 240..250..or 265....???????????




Offline nrhs sales

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Re: tires
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2010, 11:40:33 AM »
It is recommended you use a ZR tire that has been professionally shaved and heat cycled. The AMA has not banned ZR rated street tires at this time.

Offline joea

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Re: tires
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2010, 01:18:37 PM »
nrhs, "" ..rider..should contact the tire manufacture to ensure that they are using a tire that meets the speed requirements needed"...

is not the same as your statement....



Offline nrhs sales

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Re: tires
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2010, 03:31:48 PM »
Joe,

Do you not get that that is the AMA and Bubs way of not being held responsible should something go wrong if you run a ZR tire?  Of course they say contact the tire manufacturer and you and I both know the tire folks will say the same BS they told the SCTA, that you need race tires. And why do they do that? because by running a race tire it absolves them of certain liabilities should a tire blow because you obviously were using it for racing. Do you really want the AMA to say you must run race tires and have the same disaster happen that we just saw last week.

Why does it seem that you are being an instigator here for something that is not an issue?  THe AMA has not mandated racing tires and you and I both know that a shaved and heat cycled ZR tire is the best tire to run.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2010, 03:34:01 PM by nrhs sales »

Offline mike mendoza

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Re: tires
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2010, 03:44:07 PM »
please explain disaster.       mike

Offline nrhs sales

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Re: tires
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2010, 03:46:50 PM »
Mike;


Read this:   http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,8467.45.html

That should tell you everything you need to know.

I applaud the AMA for taking a wait and see position. Looks like they made a good call.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2010, 03:50:43 PM by nrhs sales »

Offline joea

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Re: tires
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2010, 04:30:37 PM »
..nrhs...what we have here is a failure to communicate....

..the ASSumptions are so sickening...assumptions made by many....

assuming you understand my or anyones mindset is freakin ridiculous.....

....many months ago...in planning what venues to attend....i knew tire issues
were evolving....i looked for confirmation from ama/fim/bub folks....

SPECIFIC CONFIRMATION REGARDING WHAT TIRES WOULD BE ALLOWED, GET IT, SO
AS NOT TO SPEND MONEY ON A VENUE TO SHOW UP FOR POTENTIAL ILLEGALITY
FOR DESIRED SPEEDS.....

Drew (scrutineer) very kindly deferred to ama/fim.......

to this date NO DIRECT FREAKIN confirmation has been given to my requests....

some may want to beat around the bush, i wanted to know, wHATfreakin tire, would be
allowed for the speeds i wanted to run, ie per BUB representative in my emails " if course we would not allow a low rated tire for high speeds".....

i related "is a tire such as zr rated for 186 considered low rated for speeds over 265 mph"...

THAT KIND OF SPECIFICITY is what i was after and have not received...in making plans...do ya get it nrhs..?.....

do ya see how a statement regarding ensuring that contacting the  tire manufacturer to make sure the tire meets the speed requirement"....leaves it clearly plainly to see, that only currently lsr tires are rated for the speeds desired....

i applaud AMA for putting on a meet....but not for answering freakin simple point blank questions

AT LEAST SCTA HAS THE FORTITUDE TO SAY WHAT THEY CONDONE AND ALLOW..

I APPLAUD THAT......

and for you nrhs to assume that you know more than tire engineers and scta/ama with regard to
tire usage and failures is crazy.....you have no freakin idea the data collected by ama and scta
reps regarding zr dot spec vs race spec.....yer sittin back thinking you have it figured out...have ya
been on the salt this year....what speeds do ya have to base your experience on....

thank you for your interpretation regarding tires, its likely as useful as your spouting off about tail sections earlier this year...

and no nrhs, i dont dislike ya....or bak..:)...

just grow tired of this bs regarding ama/bub being so praised in comparison to scta....and decision making..

IM freakin glad both do what they do to allow pursuit of dreams on salt....


disclaimer "ama folks have been very gracious in many other aspects of planning"

Offline VeeTwin

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Re: tires
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2010, 04:40:32 PM »
Joe I think the AMA statement makes it pretty clear that it's up to you to determine what tire is or isn't suitable. They don't even tell you that must contact a tire company, the word they use is "should". They're just giving you advice, nothing more.

What's wrong with that? After all, it's your ass out there. What's wrong with you making the choice yourself?

To sit there and demand that they give you a better answer and throw rocks at them for not doing so, well, it says you don't want to take responsibility.

Offline nrhs sales

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Re: tires
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2010, 04:45:23 PM »
Joe,
Sounds like you are being very neglected  :-P    And as V-twin said above it looks like you are not willing to take your own responsibilty for a tire choice? if so then maybe you need to get a slower bike.  :-D

I'm sorry if you don't agree with how I interpret the rules and my discussions with Delvene. The AMA at this time is not going to tell you what tires to run. You as the racer need to make your own decisions on what you feel is a safe tire.  I think that is a good thing as I do not like being dictated as to what I must do especially when it seems like decisions made have been poor ones.  But that is my opinion and everybody has one.

At this time I do not choose to run SCTA sanctioned events for a miriad of reasons.  Some are due to my own decisions and have nothing to do with their rules, others are directly due to them.  Once again just my opinions.  You are free to do whatever you wish.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2010, 06:25:06 PM by nrhs sales »

Offline bak189

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Re: tires
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2010, 05:09:22 PM »
Hey Joe, does that mean we will not be seeing you at the BUB event?.........


PS. I am so glad you do not dislike me....that gives me a warm a fussy feeling.......
but I also note that since your outstanding 272mph run you certainly have been more outspoken and involved
in your opinions regarding everything LSR......I think that is great.....we need input from the "fast guys" in the sport.........So tell us what tires you plan to run in the future?.........
Question authority.....always

Offline joea

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Re: tires
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2010, 07:06:39 PM »
....if ya dont see an issue with racers making their own assumptions of whats
safe....i cant help ya........

..someone will justify running a f'in bicycle tire at 250 mph....

..at some point that type of allowance effects the sport for all of us...

..in planning, i simply wanted to know if running over for example 250 or 265 mph
should i plan on only going down the road of lsr tires....or show up with zr's and
find out ama mirroring scta stance with new rule(s)...(especially with precedent of ama largely adopting
scta classifications with advent of bub meet)  i did not want to assume
anything...simply wanted confirmation...to make decisions from....its a fair amount of money and
time involved in these decisions...

bak....im intrigued with many of the lsr tires....in existence today, and possibly to come as well as zr
radials of different ilks....

also i have been very quiet and soft spoken regarding most lsr issues, tires and sanctioning bodies
are very sensitive issues for me..:)

ps bak...i had hoped to give you a warm and fuzzy feeling, but not surprised that you adopted
a "fussy" feeling...:)

Joe


landracing

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Re: tires
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2010, 07:59:09 PM »
It is recommended you use a ZR tire that has been professionally shaved and heat cycled. 

and you base this information on what? Have you run tires in excess of 250 mph to give real world results, or is this just hearsay?

JonAmo
« Last Edit: August 23, 2010, 08:05:27 PM by landracing »

Offline VeeTwin

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Re: tires
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2010, 08:08:21 PM »
....if ya dont see an issue with racers making their own assumptions of whats
safe....i cant help ya........

Well, I didn't ask for your help, but regardless, I think the notion that the organizing body will defer to the racer, who is likely much more knowledgeable on what works and what doesn't, is a refreshing one.

Quote
per BUB representative in my emails " if course we would not allow a low rated tire for high speeds".....

..someone will justify running a f'in bicycle tire at 250 mph....

Which is it, Joe?

Isn't it obvious that what they're saying is they'll apply a little common sense? What a novel concept. I've seen time after time when tech inspectors wouldn't. Personally I think the folks at Bub/AMA should be applauded for that.