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zenndog
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« Reply #900 on: February 23, 2012, 11:26:02 PM » |
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38- If you ever feel like trying it....call your tooling supplier and ask for ceramic cutting inserts for "hard turning", they cut hardened material just like it is regular steel. It is crazy to watch, like a welder throwing sparks, no cutting fluid is used, just dry. These A2-5 spindle noses were cut by hard turning, hardened first, then machined. Can't remember the hardness off the top of my head, good thing I have it written down, 86L20 Steel, heat treated 60 rockwell.   Sorry for the poor pictures. That motor looks great, good luck with the break in and beyond..... |
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« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 11:29:54 PM by zenndog »
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Jack Gifford
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« Reply #901 on: February 24, 2012, 12:15:30 AM » |
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... the cam pattern was designed for a 1.260 lifter diameter, so I had to turn the bases of all of them down ...  If the lobes care whether the foot diameter is "too large", then the lobe design is fubar. I could understand, if you needed to cut them down for clearance to block or whatever? |
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M/T Pontiac hemi guru
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BoredAndStroked
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« Reply #902 on: February 24, 2012, 07:21:55 AM » |
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... the cam pattern was designed for a 1.260 lifter diameter, so I had to turn the bases of all of them down ... If the lobes care whether the foot diameter is "too large", then the lobe design is fubar. I could understand, if you needed to cut them down for clearance to block or whatever? The cam would not have hit the foot profile out there (otherwise it would have been off the edge of the lifter), but I also wanted a smoother edge than they came with (as they were not turned/ground on the OD). I'm sure I could have ran them "as-is" . . . |
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Member of FlatCad Racing Team - 2011, 2012
Goal: Have fun, make friends, be safe - learn as much as possible, contribute when I can and hopefully get in the books!
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desotoman
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« Reply #903 on: February 24, 2012, 12:18:49 PM » |
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Great looking engine and work,can't wait to see and hear it at Bville.
Is part of the breakin for the cam and solid lifters? there should be little or no boost at a steady rpm untill
you put a load on egine or blip the throttle.
JL222
Yes, I want to get the cam and lifters broke in good, before we add too much load. Buddy, They will run without the blower belt for break in. Although it does look funny when the blower is turning and there is no belt attached. LOL. Tom G. |
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"Got'Cha" was first run in 1974. Bill Temple entered both 2 clubs in 1976 with records in AA/BGR. At El Mirage 201.79 and Bonneville at 220.
In 1977 Greg Temple started driving "Got'Cha" and entered the El Mirage Dirty 2 club in 1979 @ 201.97. Greg went on to set two records at Bonneville, one in 1981 at 241.848, then in 1991 he set another record at 262.230
Bill and Greg were the first father and son to enter the El Mirage Dirty 2 club. They broke the D/BFR at Bonneville in 1981 @ 241 with top speed of 249. This record still stands today. In 1991 they set the A/BFR @ 262 which was later broke by Duane McKinney.
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Seldom Seen Slim
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Hero Member
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Age: 65
Location: Skandia, Michigan
Posts: 8349
Nancy -- 201.913 mph record on a production ZX15!
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« Reply #904 on: February 24, 2012, 12:26:33 PM » |
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Wait a minnit-- hunh? "...it does look funny when the blower is turning and there is no belt attached." So forgive me -- I'm not a car guy -- but if there's no belt, what's making the blower turn? Is the air moving through it that forceful that it overcomes internal losses in the blower? I could see that in a turbo, maybe, but in a screw type blower -- hunh?
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Jon E. Wennerberg
a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim
Skandia, Michigan
(that's way up north)
2 Club member x2
Owner of landracing.com
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desotoman
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« Reply #905 on: February 24, 2012, 12:41:31 PM » |
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SSS,
You bring up a good point and I should have clarified my post. Back in 1972 I built a boat motor with a 6-71 GMC supercharger but it had no teflon strips in it, and it ran fine with out the blower belt hooked up, and that is how I broke my cam in on that motor. A screw blower should work also as there is no friction on the case the way they are made.
I don't have any experience with a GMC blower set up with teflon, so they may not turn as free because of the friction of the teflon against the case, so someone else will have to chime in on that type of set up.
I guess you could say the rule of thumb would be if you can spin the blower with you hand, the motor should run without the blower belt. This would be for a blower mounted on top of the motor. Others types that have 10 feet of intake tract might not work.
Tom G.
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« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 12:46:42 PM by desotoman »
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"Got'Cha" was first run in 1974. Bill Temple entered both 2 clubs in 1976 with records in AA/BGR. At El Mirage 201.79 and Bonneville at 220.
In 1977 Greg Temple started driving "Got'Cha" and entered the El Mirage Dirty 2 club in 1979 @ 201.97. Greg went on to set two records at Bonneville, one in 1981 at 241.848, then in 1991 he set another record at 262.230
Bill and Greg were the first father and son to enter the El Mirage Dirty 2 club. They broke the D/BFR at Bonneville in 1981 @ 241 with top speed of 249. This record still stands today. In 1991 they set the A/BFR @ 262 which was later broke by Duane McKinney.
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BoredAndStroked
Jr. Member
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Age: 54
Location: Midwest
Posts: 87
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« Reply #906 on: February 24, 2012, 12:54:46 PM » |
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SSS,
You bring up a good point and I should have clarified my post. Back in 1972 I built a boat motor with a 6-71 GMC supercharger but it had no teflon strips in it, and it ran fine with out the blower belt hooked up, and that is how I broke my cam in on that motor. A screw blower should work also as there is no friction on the case the way they are made.
I don't have any experience with a GMC blower set up with teflon, so they may not turn as free because of the friction of the teflon against the case, so someone else will have to chime in on that type of set up.
I guess you could say the rule of thumb would be if you can spin the blower with you hand, the motor should run without the blower belt. This would be for a blower mounted on top of the motor. Others types that have 10 feet of intake tract might not work.
Tom G.
You can't really spin a newly stripped teflon blower by hand - they are very tight. And, if you can easily turn a stripped blower - it probably needs new strips! There really isn't an issue breaking it in with a blower - we just run a much lower pulley ratio (under-driven) and we're running at a fairly constant RPM once it gets started --> somewhere around 2,000. As long as we're getting a lot of oil splash on to the lifters and cam and bore, it should break in properly. Obviously we'll have the right break-in oil in it as well - with a lot of anti-wear additives. (Like Brad Penn stuff). |
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Member of FlatCad Racing Team - 2011, 2012
Goal: Have fun, make friends, be safe - learn as much as possible, contribute when I can and hopefully get in the books!
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BoredAndStroked
Jr. Member
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Age: 54
Location: Midwest
Posts: 87
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« Reply #907 on: February 24, 2012, 12:56:25 PM » |
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38- If you ever feel like trying it....call your tooling supplier and ask for ceramic cutting inserts for "hard turning", they cut hardened material just like it is regular steel. It is crazy to watch, like a welder throwing sparks, no cutting fluid is used, just dry. These A2-5 spindle noses were cut by hard turning, hardened first, then machined. Can't remember the hardness off the top of my head, good thing I have it written down, 86L20 Steel, heat treated 60 rockwell.
Thanks for the info - I've never used ceramic inserts, will have to give them a try! I do know there is no way in hell I'd attempt to turn a chunk of 8620 at a hardness of 60 with carbide! |
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Member of FlatCad Racing Team - 2011, 2012
Goal: Have fun, make friends, be safe - learn as much as possible, contribute when I can and hopefully get in the books!
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38flattie
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« Reply #908 on: February 25, 2012, 08:10:33 AM » |
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Zenndog, thanks for the info! Dale, great story about Navarro and the lifters- the engine is looking great! Actually, Brian proposed this idea a couple of years ago, when Kevin and I were trying to figure out solid lifters: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332457&page=13Pete1 has came up with a square bodied roller lifter design, that shows promise-we may try them on the roller cam I've been busy trying to get the changes done on the car, and looking for good aero mods. I want them to work, and at the same time, I want them to have the 'vintage' look. I've settled on a modified version of fairings like the Lockhart car had. , |
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« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 08:13:46 AM by 38flattie »
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38flattie
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« Reply #909 on: February 25, 2012, 04:09:50 PM » |
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Garry is making great progress on his Flatcad porting work, achieving 200 CFM on the #5 and ##6 intake ports. Now, he just has to match the other 6 intakes with them!  Garry added a second intake gasket, .050" thick, and flowed our design again. The flow went from 166 CFM to 173 CFM- looks like it may be a transfer area issue. Garry is making some mods to the design, and will flow it again next Thursday. |
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dw230
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« Reply #910 on: February 26, 2012, 02:48:22 PM » |
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Pleas refresh my memory - what class are you proposing to run with the wheel fairings?
DW
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White Goose Bar - Where LSR is a life style, not a bucket list item. www.whitegoosebar.com - God Speed Mike Waters Plan B includes wine - 2013 |
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38flattie
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« Reply #911 on: February 26, 2012, 02:51:00 PM » |
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Dan, XXO/BVGCC
Did I miss something?
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38flattie
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« Reply #912 on: February 27, 2012, 12:16:39 PM » |
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I can't find any 8mm belts longer than 70.55". I can't go smaller than a 53 tooth on the crank pully, due to the crank support.
Soooo, does anyone know where I can find a belt in the 72"-73" range?
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RichFox
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« Reply #913 on: February 27, 2012, 01:14:08 PM » |
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desotoman
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« Reply #914 on: February 27, 2012, 03:51:43 PM » |
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Buddy,
RCD makes a belt you might be able to use.
Tom G.
1312-2000-075 is their part number.
2000-8M-75 POWER GRIP RUBBER (250T, 78.7 X 3) BLOWER BELT $259.00
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"Got'Cha" was first run in 1974. Bill Temple entered both 2 clubs in 1976 with records in AA/BGR. At El Mirage 201.79 and Bonneville at 220.
In 1977 Greg Temple started driving "Got'Cha" and entered the El Mirage Dirty 2 club in 1979 @ 201.97. Greg went on to set two records at Bonneville, one in 1981 at 241.848, then in 1991 he set another record at 262.230
Bill and Greg were the first father and son to enter the El Mirage Dirty 2 club. They broke the D/BFR at Bonneville in 1981 @ 241 with top speed of 249. This record still stands today. In 1991 they set the A/BFR @ 262 which was later broke by Duane McKinney.
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