Author Topic: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build  (Read 1026841 times)

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Offline 38flattie

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #90 on: January 01, 2011, 04:54:09 PM »
Gary, That's cool!

My dad has an Impala, that we finished couple years ago. it was a parts car, out of Oklahoma City, and took us 6 years to finish.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 04:55:55 PM by 38flattie »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

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http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #91 on: January 01, 2011, 05:17:23 PM »
Gary, how stylish -- baby moons and all.  I betcha you were THE man back then -- and of course you're still the man in your neighborhood.  I mean, how many guys that live near you have a racing Studebaker and a 1950 Buick in their resume?  Nice car, it was.  What motor did it have -- just curious.
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #92 on: January 01, 2011, 09:59:51 PM »
Buddy, I had a 58 Del Ray when I got married back in 62.

Gary, my folks were married in '62 also, in Springfield, Mo. I was born there in '63. Dad still lives about 75 miles from there

Small world sometimes!
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline jimmy six

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #93 on: January 02, 2011, 03:34:33 PM »
Hey I'm 66 and semi dyslexik..................is was a misspell and non-proof read...........no word game intended...........JD
First GMC 6 powered Fuel roadster over 200, with 2 red hats. Pit crew for Patrick Tone's Super Stock #49 Camaro

Offline SPARKY

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #94 on: January 02, 2011, 05:49:49 PM »
LOL   jeez JD what a disappointment,  we were all for giving you extra credit for original and creative--- hoping at the very least it was a Freudian 
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

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Offline 38flattie

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #95 on: January 02, 2011, 06:44:29 PM »
LOL   jeez JD what a disappointment,  we were all for giving you extra credit for original and creative--- hoping at the very least it was a Freudian  

No kidding!! :cheers:



Team member Dale Hays(BoredandStroked) has been busy -- made a set of aluminum 'FlowBench' lifters. They're designed to go into the lifter blocks - the top has a flange so they can't drop down. Joe Abbin, author of "Blown Flathead" is doing the flowbench work for us.

These make it easy to put some 'setup springs' on a couple valves and set the valve open height to be .100, .200, .300, .400 and .500 -- then test the flow with all the rest of the things we need to try. We'll be using a junk block as a guinea pig - so we have plenty of ports to try. One thing that is different on a FlatCad versus a flathead Ford is that the ports are not the same - front to back, there are actually 4 different intake port lengths/shapes, similar for the exhaust. ( Darn Cadillac engineers!).

Here is the type of stuff that will be done:

1) Base line numbers with stock ports, stock valve sizes, etc..
2) Rework the valve bowl areas (lots of room for improvement), start the porting procedure (doing all the normal 'short-side' radius work, hogging out the runners, etc).
3) Test a variety of larger valve sizes to determine when we are port restricted (with a competition port) - versus valve restricted. We can go up to about a 2.05 intake and a 1.75 exhaust -- though we may find that we run out of flow at smaller valve sizes. Dale Hays's guess (and that is what it is ) is that at about a 1.94 intake, we'll be done.Jimmy Stevens and Ron Main both said bigger is better, though, so we'll see what testing says. Keep in mind that we will have a large-bore 6-71 on the top with a Enderle Bugcatcher - so we'll be force-feeding it . . .
4) Test with our new combustion chamber designs and proposed block reliefs. We've carved up some prototype combustion chambers on a CNC mill - directly from the cool SolidWorks designs that Chris Daniels has done.

Flowbench testing isn't going to tell us exactly what works or how much HP we'll make -- but hopefully it will give us some dang good ideas to try . . . the dyno and the track will tell us if we did the right things.

The hard part is that we have NO real numbers for baselines for ANYTHING - other than the testing that was done about WW2 timeframe (see pics)--- so we'll just use the knowledge/experience of the group, throw a bit of luck in, send a few prayers to the Flathead Gods and see what happens. Time always gives us answers . . .
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 07:06:49 PM by 38flattie »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline 38flattie

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #96 on: January 03, 2011, 07:11:05 AM »
Can anyone tell me how I would need to set the car up differently for El Mirage? I know the gearing will be different, and the jetting, but what about weight- similar to the salt, or lighter?
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline desotoman

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #97 on: January 03, 2011, 03:38:20 PM »
It will be interesting to see what your flow bench dictates. Back in the 80's I did the same thing with Barney Navarro on the flathead ford. The results of all that work Barney and I did were the Hi Dome Navarro heads. I spent many hours on the flow bench at Navarro's and the results were very interesting. I used clay to change reliefs, port radius's etc. We ended up attaining max port velocity. It did not matter if the valve was in or out of the block, it flowed the same.  You will find there are a couple of different ways you can go.

Dale Hays is a good guy, and very sharp. Back in the 80's I knew Dale when he lived in Lomita, CA. At the time he had one of Isky's .500 lift flathead cams that was made for Jazzy Neilson. Only 3 were ever made, and they ran without cam bearings.

Good luck,

Tom G.
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #98 on: January 03, 2011, 04:17:07 PM »
Thanks Tom!  Dale still has the Isky 505! Pete Samuelson, one of our team members, copied Dale's cam, and has a 505 master.

It's actually one grind we are considering, along with a couple of others. Jimmy Stevens offered to let us use one of his grinds., either the same as he ran with Costella, or his bigger one. Joe Paneck made us two billet cam blanks, but grinds are still being explored.

Back to Dale, you're right about him being sharp! He specked out our crank for Crower. He did such an amazing job, that when it was presented to Crower, the crank cost was $900 less than originally quoted.

After your experience with Barney Navarro, I know you fully understand what we are doing. It seems fewer and fewer guys look twice at flatheads anymore.  ...Of course, the Ford guys that do, have taken things to a new level in the last few years!

For Cadillacs, unlike Fords, there are no parts, except for custom made, and no testing data!

« Last Edit: January 03, 2011, 08:01:59 PM by 38flattie »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline jimmy six

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #99 on: January 03, 2011, 09:45:38 PM »
When I ran in XO/VGC I made no changes from El Mirage to Bonneville. Please note El Mirage TO  Bonneville. Because the run at Bonneville was longer than El Mirage and the head made more heat I did not and would not lean it. I was using carburators at that time. I also used the same gear. El Mirage is a long drag race...If you are close to a record and miss a shift you might as well turn off.
First GMC 6 powered Fuel roadster over 200, with 2 red hats. Pit crew for Patrick Tone's Super Stock #49 Camaro

Offline GH

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #100 on: January 04, 2011, 12:08:46 PM »
Jon, my old 58 had a 283 with a 3 speed behind it.

Offline 38flattie

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #101 on: January 08, 2011, 11:59:33 AM »
I thought I'd send some pics of the engine that motivates this build. The owner tells me it ran at Bonneville in 1950, and was a AK Miller build. I have been unable to verify the 1950 runs.

It's a pretty radical engine- domed pistons, huge valves, extra head bolts,Chrysler rods, front mount blower, crank weights cut WAY down,adjustable solid lifters,modified lifter blocks, and water ports all down the side.

My goal is to build a little more modern version of the engine.

I'd run this one, but Aaron won't sell it to me!
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline 38flattie

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #102 on: January 08, 2011, 12:02:43 PM »
few more...
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline 38flattie

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #103 on: January 08, 2011, 12:05:23 PM »
last ones
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline salt27

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #104 on: January 08, 2011, 01:36:21 PM »
Thanks for the flat Caddy pictures, what a cool engine.
This Caddy is going in a model A roadster.
A Friend of mine says the 392 Hemi is a light weight casting compared to the flathead Caddy. :-D

Don