XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build

[38flattie]

Ok, A couple of questions;

I've recently been told that the mechanical injection system works better if fed from a tank mounted higher than the fuel pump. I've been advised to mount a small tank in the engine bay, and feed it from the main tank with an electric pump. The mechanical pump would then feed the injection system from this small tank. Anyone know anything about this?

If so, where can I get a small tank like this?

I'm running a 'chiller' type intercooler. I'll have ice water circulating through the chiller. How available is ice, and how practicle is this?

[Rex Schimmer]

Biuddy,
Pumps like to make pressure, they do not like to suck, (sounds like my wife, in more ways than one!) so any help on the inlet side for the pump helps the pump work better. These include, large inlet lines, the bigger the better, and a little positive pressure on the inlet, which is usually done by having the pump lower than the fuel level. If you do a separate tank for the injector pump you will need to locate it close to the injector pump,  and you will need to have a line that goes from someplace close to the top of the tank back to the main fuel tank as the electric fuel pump(s) supplying the injector pump tank should be at least 50% larger in volume than the injector pump which means that there will be constant flow of fuel from the injector tank back to the main tank. The injector tank will also need some sort of breather to prevent over pressure in the tank and also provide atmospheric pressure to push the fuel to the injector pump. I have always thought the best tank design is a tall cylindrical shape with the fuel pump inlet at the bottom, I would also suggest a baffle across the inside of this tank to prevent any possible swirling of the fuel. You may also consider connecting the injection system return line to this tank which will help keep it full and reduce the amount of plumbing back to the main tank. If you do run the injection return line back to the main tank, do not combine it with the return line from the injector pump tank.

A thought on the line size for the pump inlet. If the pump has a -6 or -8 inlet connection do not assume then that the line size should match that size. Buy a step up adapter from the -6 or -8 to at least a -12 line and drill out the fitting as large as you can. Even with the inlet port acting as an orifice it can be shown that the increase in line size reduces the pressure drop through that line substantially.

I would think that you would have someone fab the tank for you as you will probably mount it in front of the engine. Actually with the set up you have why don't you just make a 5-10 gallon tank to mount in the front of the engine and then skip all of the electric fuel pump hassle altogether. If you look at some  cars that run big engine set back, link yours, you will see many of them have both the fuel tank and the water tank mounted up front to both help the water pump and the fuel pump.

Ice is not a problem at the salt, last year there were two semis parked on the salt with ice.



Rex

[RichFox]

My deal on the tank was to buy a piece of 4 in square 6061 tube. Cut to length and make plates to weld over the ends. Drill and tap for two Holley float bowls. Weld in AN fittings for in and out lines. In from the tank and returns. Out to the injector pump. Weld in mounts. Hook up the electric pump to the inlets on the float bowls as though they were on carbs. Run it.

[38flattie]

Rex, thanks! I may have room to make this work- I'll check it out Tuesday when I pick the car up from Sam.

Rich, I know I have room for your setup. Do you have any pics of this?

[38flattie]

I want to start on the chiller tank this week.

How big of tank is needed? I assume there is some sort of screen, or filter, necessary to keep the ice from entering the pump. I've googled, but can't find very much info on this.

Can some one enlighten me, please?

[RichFox]

No pics. Wouldn't the chiller tank hold ice water that cooled the water pumped in a sealed system to the intercooler and back? Mine had kind of a raditior in it simular to the one in the intercooler. The ice water stayed in the tank.

[Skip Pipes]

Hi Buddy,

Now that you have my Chiller you can do what I’m doing with the turbo, water/air intercooler (It’s the same a concept as the chiller).

Here’s the tank I built for my new setup. It holds 13 gal and I’m running a “Rule” brand, 2000 GPH bilge pump in the bottom. It’s the same concept as my radiator tank, just with a much larger pump. The Rule pump has a cage on the bottom that allows water in, but won’t clog with ice chips.
 
You have my Stewart pump, so you don’t need an internal pump. There are some good threads on intercooler tanks "here" and they suggest a slotted pickup positioned near the bottom of the tank, rather than just a hole in the bottom of the tank as an outlet. The slot lets water in and is less prone to clogging from ice chips.

Make sure you put a large enough hole in the top to make it easier to get the ice in the tank. I was going to use a fuel cell cap, but I'm going to a larger marine hatch/deck plate.

Chiseled Performance has some good examples of intercooler tanks. They show drag racing tanks, but you’ll want one substantially larger, say 15 gal or larger.
http://www.chiseledperformance.net/watertanks.htm

Skip Pipes

[RichFox]

I have a tank that I will take a picture of later when the sun comes up.

[GH]

Buddy, I made a surge tank and mounted a carb float chamber on it. I had a 20 gal. tank in the trunk with a Holley pump that pumped the fuel up to the surge tank and the carb float held it at a decent level. The return line went to the surge tank. I ran this set-up in my Willys and the Stude.

[38flattie]

Skip, since I have your chiller, and pump, doesn't it then stand to reason I should have your tank?! Lol! Thanks Skip, they are very nice!

Thanks guys!

I have a clearer understanding of what's needed now, so I'll get started on the fuel and chiller tanks.

I'm the morning, I'm headed down to pick the car up from Sam. I can't wait to see this cage, as Sam's work looks first class!

[Skip Pipes]

My tank will only fit if you cut off the windshield and roof, then pull the fenders and running boards.

Skip

[38flattie]

I picked the car up from Sam last night.

All I can say is WOW! The cage looks better in person than in the pics!

Sam showed me some in car videos of Hooley's record setting runs- man, that was cool!

We bs'd for a couple of hours before I left, and I really enjoyed myself .Thanks again Sam!

Hit Sam up if you need a cage, frame, whole car built, etc.- You won't be sorry!


BoredandStroked completed the initial designs for the main caps - combined them with the girdle plate to make a 'girdle assembly'.Don has the preliminary drawings and is cranking away on getting the girdle plate and the main caps started.

Anyway, here are a couple pictures of the SolidWorks girdle assembly:

[38flattie]

BoredandStroked has been busy designing the rear main seal. Here is what he posted on the other build thread:

Been working on the design of a rear 'seal plate'. The challenge is that we're completely changing the rear main setup -- moving the crankshaft thrust from the middle bearing to the rear (like a BBC). We're running BBC main bearings as well. This meant that I needed to come up with a good way to seal the rear main - something that we could retrofit to the block and the custom crank.

Here is what we decided to do:

1) The crankshaft has the large Ford FE rear flange - but it is wider/thicker than stock Ford (about .850). Also, instead of the 'notch' that a FE flange has, I removed the notch and designed the outer surface to be the sealing surface for a big one-piece seal. The seal is a special Cummins Diesel seal. I reduced the FE flange ID from 5.120 to 5.118 to match the seal.

2) Then I needed to come up with a special two-piece seal plate design. There is a .187 (3/16) thick steel plate that is installed AFTER the crankshaft and it bolts to the back of the newly designed main-bearing cap. This plate will have a thin gasket behind it to seal against the back of the block, back of the main cap, etc.. Then, there is an aluminum seal plate that is about .700 thick that has a machined recess to hold the one-piece seal.

3) The seal plate is slipped over the crankshaft flange and then it bolts to the .187 steel block seal plate as well as the main bearing cap and the 1.25 girdle plate.

4) I made sure that I have a .375 groove (oil drain trough) in the main bearing cap that passes through to the inside-bottom of the rear seal plate. This is to funnel the oil away from the rear main seal and the crankshaft oil slinger.

5) It was king of fun thinking through all aspects of the design -- hopefully I've covered all the bases and this will work. Guess we'll find out!

So, now we just need to get the finished product back from Kevin and Don!

[38flattie]

We received the model of the crank back from Crower, and Dale used it to check clearances and fitment on the girdle, bearings,  and rear main seal. This is with BBC main and rod bearings.

I know some of you guys prefer the old school way of 'just whittle it', but it sure is nice to know everything is perfect before whittling it!

[RichFox]

I don't think it's a matter of preference. I think it's a matter of old dogs and new tricks.