XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build

[38flattie]

Tony, it's legal in V4. The answer I received was both informative, and helpful. We will continue to work on a design that will accomplish our goal, and be legal.

Here is the reply I received:



The Vintage Engine Committee has previously found the use of a plate to adapt a cylinder head is not an acceptable modification, except in V4.  The Committee felt they did not want to stifle innovation, so any 2.A.1 compliant specialty head may be used but must bolt directly to the block using the original bolt/stud holes.  The use of larger and additional head bolts/studs, as you recently requested and was approved, would continue to be acceptable. 


It sounds like you have two issues that you are dealing with; providing a combustion chamber and attaching the cylinder head.  One method to create a combustion chamber when one isn't located in the cylinder head that has been used in the past is to lower the piston in the cylinder.  Another method that has also been used in the past is to weld a plate of similar material to the head thus making the plate an integral part of the head and retaining the original head bolt location. 


A Specialty or after market head may be modified to use the original head bolt pattern in the block by welding up, and adding, head bolt holes.  This is more easily done if the head in question is aluminum, but it can be done with cast iron as well.


Thank you for your interest in the Vintage Engine Classes.

[dw230]

Tony,

As stated before, I no longer respond to vintage engine questions(see salt Cat).

Buddy has found the newly established Vintage Engine Committee and properly funnels his questions there.

See your 2011 rulebook, section 16.

DW

[maguromic]

Dan, I know what you said earlier, but just looking for an  opinion as I have no dog in this fight.  It just seems unfair that a vintage V4 can run a plate but the rest of the vintage engines cant.

Buddy, Its not that hard to do a three valves on rockers and to put the chamber in the bore with a three piece head.  I designed both a 4-valve and 3-valve head with rockers for the GMC and the three valve flowed in the mid 400.  The idea for putting the chamber down in the bore came about because of in vintage you cant move the crank up in the block and cut the blocks down 1-2 inches anymore.  Sorry for digressing from your build thread.  Tony

As a friend of mine in Langley says "the watchers are being watched". 

[38flattie]

Tony, your comments were not digressing from the build thread at all! I'm new at this, and appreciate the input.

Any chance you could show pics of the chambers in the bore. either here or by email?

Flow in the mid 400's would REALLY wake this baby up!

[maguromic]

Buddy, Here is a teaser, I will send you an email with the rest. The other pictures are of a three piece head that my friend Kevin built to make a Cadillac V12 a while back.  Its an overhead cam and is much more complicated than the  rocker arm head, but it shows that it can be done. Tony

3-valve

3-piece head

[desotoman]

Tony,

That CNC head looks way expensive. If you had to go out and pay for the R&D and Machining how much would that cost?

Tom G.

[maguromic]

Tom, I really don’t know what it would cost if someone had to pay to get it done. The big cost is in the time it takes drawing it and converting it to machine language, the R&D part is not that bad.  What we did was use an existing port and chamber configurations and modify them.  The NASCAR and IRL guys have it down to a science and have done all the hard work.   All the stuff I did was use the IRL Aurora ports and modify them for my use.  Some of the best advice I received was from Paul Vandeley (sp) (I believe he was responsible for the Pontiac 4-valve of the 80’s) who suggested that I use a block of carbon and start carving a single cylinder and flow it before you do the rest. It’s a messy job, but fun.

This is the last IRL Aurora intake port that was developed before Comptech shut the IRL program down.  If I add all the hours up and pay myself it would workout to about 5 cents per hour. Tom, I don't want to take up Buddy's build diary talking about the heads, PM your email and we can chat.  Tony

[SPARKY]

Guys if you take this private how in the world are we "unwashed" out here in the hinterlands supposed to become "enlightened"

[38flattie]

I agree!

A build thread should include the trials and tribulations of the build, as well as the successes.

As such, it should also include the research and schooling.



In short, please post it!

[RichFox]

Yes, Please. I have been trying to grasp some slight understanding of how you get from pictures to parts lately. And now I see these very pretty heads. For s V12 Cad? That got some neurons flashing.

[SPARKY]

  lol

[maguromic]

Sparky, I did not want take Buddy's build thread up with my head ideas and your blue hats speaks volumes already.

Rich, I didn't build or design the heads I posted.  They were built by a friend of mine for a V12 Cadillac in his garage and unfortunately they are not legal for vintage being over head cam.  All the drawings that we have done have been done in Solid Works and then converted for the CNC.  Tony

[Rex Schimmer]

Tony,
The Cad V12 with your friends heads would not be legal for the XXO class?

Rex

[Milwaukee Midget]

Legal, shmegal - That's a BEAUTIFUL looking piece of machine work. 

[RichFox]

Overhead cam specialty heads are not legal in XXO. Page 16 2.A.1  7th paragraph 2010 rule book