Author Topic: 8080  (Read 15940 times)

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Offline NathanStewart

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Re: 8080
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2010, 12:39:18 PM »
Good to know Dan.  Tom offered up some very insightful information that I think is pertinent to this discussion. 
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Offline NathanStewart

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Re: 8080
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2010, 01:04:29 PM »
Willie I don't really know if the rule actually changed or not.  I think more words were added just to state the obvious and in effect the intent of the rule is the same.  Safety rules come first in my mind and all things fall in after that but I'm a fairly conservative person in that respect.  I don't know why all the conspiracy theories and cavalier attitudes start coming out when something like this comes up.  I sincerely believe that our first priority as a family of racers is that safety comes first and that "innovation" can take a back seat to perserving someone's physical well being or life.  And this applies to any and all vehicles participating in an SCTA event, not just the car in question.

Just my $.02.  I hope this gets sorted.
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Offline dw230

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Re: 8080
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2010, 01:58:35 PM »
Nathan is correct. The new words were added in 2010 because of a proposed vehicle that claimed they could build without a roll cage because "innovation is unlimited"

DW
White Goose Bar - Where LSR is a lifestyle
Alcohol - because no good story starts with a salad.

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Offline Stan Back

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Re: 8080
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2010, 04:07:59 PM »
And the change was presented at the Rules meeting to which all SCTA members were invited (good pizza!).

Stan
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: 8080
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2010, 10:52:11 AM »
dW,
Would that proposed car without a roll cage be a certain streamliner from Kent Fuller?

If they decide to disqualify Jack's cars it will be a black day for the SCTA.

Rex
Rex

Not much matters and the rest doesn't matter at all.

Offline RICK

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Re: 8080
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2010, 11:37:07 AM »
In my old age I'm easily confused. I'm trying to follow this thread,,,,,But, have a question. Is "8080" a car or a bike??????


Thanks, RICK
It's not over, it's just harder.

Offline 4-barrel Mike

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Re: 8080
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2010, 11:57:58 AM »
Latest El Mirage results:

8080 J      GS      Costella & Cunha Eliminators Tim Cunha 149.640 149.030 225

 :cheers:

Mike
Mike Kelly - PROUD owner of the V4F that powered the #1931 VGC to a 82.803 mph record in 2008!

Offline nebulous

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Re: 8080
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2010, 04:25:53 PM »
Hi Nathen
When I hear that 8080 steering is being referred to as wagon steering, by a factfinder, and that skids don't define a car, and ignore the safety they provide in event of a flat, and a scribe line on a round billet is the same degree of cheating, as two wheels close together is an insult!
A streamliner is not a car or a motorcycle! It is a "vehicle' designed to set records in a straight line! They are all different! They should be put through rigorous observed tests, not be banned by hearsay, prejudice and rule changes! Streamliners are the last motorized non handicapped sport! Lets be safe, be fairly observed and advance into the future!
I need, and am thankfull for all the help from SCTA! I too have a lot at risk!
I jump on my horse Cavalier and hopefully ride into a free thinking and creative future!

Thanks Jack
Jack Costella   
"Records are set by effort, not by the stroke of a pen!"

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: 8080
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2010, 02:14:06 AM »
Jack,

You've always been a personal hero of mine and I respect and admire your limitless innovation.  I know that safety is a priority in your mind which leads me to believe that you've built a car that you know is safe.  Perhaps I won't personally create growth, advance progress or impart our knowledge by playing with conventional stuff like stupid roadsters or Model B Fords, but I like rules that keep me and others safe.  I personally like knowing that a group of concerned experienced racers that have volunteered to act as guardians and enforcers of these rules care enough to say hey, let's take a step back and really take a good look at things before we go further.  I've personally seen more than enough bad things happen that I'll personally never take what the rules are trying to do to keep me safe for granted.  But like I said, I'm kind of conservative like that I guess.  I think at the end of the day it's still about having fun and safe is fun in my mind and I'm sure you'd agree with me.

Anyways, I'm sure this will all get sorted out in due time.  Being so far ahead of the curve just means the rest of the curve has to catch up with you.

Best of luck Jack.

Nathan     
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Offline nebulous

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Re: 8080
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2010, 12:28:26 PM »
Nathan
Your a good man! I remember them old times!
Your Friend Jack
Jack Costella   
"Records are set by effort, not by the stroke of a pen!"

Offline roadsterswap

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Re: 8080
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2010, 12:24:59 PM »
Safety is a relative term! We all want to be safe in our vehicles! I want to be safe in my liner! That is job number one for Jack and I! As you all know, there is an element of risk in this hobby of ours, and it has to be dealt with in a fair way. The SCTA is doing it's best to be open and positive about the issues they perceive with 8080.

All the "great" leaders with their committees, created or changed rules  believing they are, or were doing what was best for their people. By the stroke of a pen, the raising of a hand, rules are created and changed to save us from our own "stupidity".
What I do not want to have happen, is the creation of some rule that will control the construction and design  of "Streamliners". Just as they decided to define a 2 wheel "Streamliner" a motorcycle  that has  tip 20 degrees. They could decide that a "Streamliner" cannot tip or use skids, (skids that are for support in event of flat tire thus, a safety addition). These may seem like  innocuous rule additions, but at this time it would only effect Jack's designs. Who knows what could be  learned or what might  develop with this new frame of reference or paradigm shift,  (narrow tread, pantograph steering, safety skids, and the relevance of a flat bottom)?

We are more than willing to comply with the Technical advisers and rigorous dynamic testing.

I know this does not matter because I am the driver/co owner  and am a bit biased and totally subjective, but this "Streamliner" is so easy to drive in a straight line that I could send a text message while going down the track! After years in my coupe, waiting for the handling demons to say "hello" this vehicle almost puts me to sleep.

No one can judge a design safe or unsafe the same way a cardboard or PVC rollbar can be judged!

I say "NO" to rule changes and the "spec" ing of "Streamliners",  both two and four wheel!

Streamliners both 2 and 4 wheel are the ultimate straightaway vehicles, and should not be judged as cars or motorcycles.

FIM stated the 20degree rule was to "better define a motorcycle and for safety".
Many  think it was promoted by people protecting their designs, records and pocketbooks!
We will never know, if a flat bottom, 2 wheel "Streamliner" will hold the record! Don't limit the design of 4Wheel "Streamliners" this way!






Jack,

You've always been a personal hero of mine and I respect and admire your limitless innovation.  I know that safety is a priority in your mind which leads me to believe that you've built a car that you know is safe.  Perhaps I won't personally create growth, advance progress or impart our knowledge by playing with conventional stuff like stupid roadsters or Model B Fords, but I like rules that keep me and others safe.  I personally like knowing that a group of concerned experienced racers that have volunteered to act as guardians and enforcers of these rules care enough to say hey, let's take a step back and really take a good look at things before we go further.  I've personally seen more than enough bad things happen that I'll personally never take what the rules are trying to do to keep me safe for granted.  But like I said, I'm kind of conservative like that I guess.  I think at the end of the day it's still about having fun and safe is fun in my mind and I'm sure you'd agree with me.

Anyways, I'm sure this will all get sorted out in due time.  Being so far ahead of the curve just means the rest of the curve has to catch up with you.

Best of luck Jack.

Nathan     
[/quote]

Offline Malcolm UK

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Re: 8080
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2010, 03:37:55 PM »
All that follows is on the basis of a long standing (but distant) friendship with Jack & Keiko .......... in other words a large degree of bias!

Talking of degrees (from the vertical), with the SCTA now following the lead of the FIM for defining motorcycles ........ how long will it be before the SCTA follows the FIA for producing cars? :roll:

All that needed to be said about innovation is that this does not apply to safety measures protecting the driver.  Now it appears we have "Innovation is encouraged, within the rules".  Not well put and probably an oxymoron (and following someone elses rules stifles and chokes most innovation).

Safety 'skids' are required on unlimited trucks, but seem now to be less welcome on a streamliner. 

Flat bottoms are mandated in many formulae within the FIA (see my second para), so what Jack has being doing is actually required in other parts of the motorsport world - look at the F1 Honda that went for 400 kph on Bonneville.

Congratulations on the records achieved by Jack's designs on the dirt and salt.  Would they get wiped away if the 8080, along with any other designed vehicles on 2 and 4 wheels, is banned?

Malcolm (in the UK)



Malcolm UK, Derby, England.

Offline willieworld

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Re: 8080
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2010, 10:10:46 PM »
safety skids are required on-- unlimited diesel truck--modified diesel truck--highway hauler--does my sidecar bike have a skid?     you dammm right it does ---my chassis is 1 1/2 inch off the ground ---my rear rim is about 4 inches off the ground ---my skid is 1 inch off the ground ---sidecar on the left side -skid on the right side---the skid does 2 things --in case of a flat it will keep the chassis off of the race surface  and keep the bike straight--in case of a wind gust from the left it limits how much the sidecar could lift----remember  safety is no accident------------------------willie buchta
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 10:52:45 PM by willieworld »
willie-dpombatmir-buchta

Offline joea

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Re: 8080
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2010, 01:45:52 AM »
..Malcom....your quote "with the SCTA now following the lead of the FIM for defining motorcycles".....

is very interesting.....considering that about 6 yrs ago.....the FIM abandoned 100 yrs of tradition
and....adopted nearly the entire SCTA rule book for motorcycles in LSR......


Offline Malcolm UK

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Re: 8080
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2010, 08:03:55 AM »
Are you saying that for six years there has been no difference between the two organisations?  So why is there the need for a BUB event? 

Malcolm UK

see the PS




ps I do know that it is just the technical rules and that the SCTA could not adopt the operational methods of the FIM  :-D.
Malcolm UK, Derby, England.