How would you feel if

[JackD]

Divide and conquer instead of work to go faster.
It is a fall down funny to legislate slow instead of work to go faster.
Next you will want to lock in records, regulate boost, % of nitro and bump a Vincent from the push rod class.
Oh wait, some of that you have already done.
CARRY ON

[Larry Forstall]

I think rule continuity in all sports is important. The comparison of old to new records is the best means for measuring advancements. The SCTA roadster classes are a prime example. The performance improvements are directly related to innovation and technology as it is still the same 50 year old "brick" you are trying to push through the air. If you change rules or add classes with no rules you remove the integrity of all past records. HP is the cheapest route to improved speeds but eventually you have to look at aero. The A classes are the best  for these improvements as their rules are less restrictive. Yes it is expensive to build a bike from scratch, (How well I know and don't tell my wife) but that is the price if you are reaching for the top.
       On the other subject of allowing non-street bikes in M, I personally never agreed but my complaint centered on allowing 2-strokes to compete with the same displacement. Every other sanctioning body that I know of had a handicap (usually 2to1) because of twice as many firing pulses per cycle. That said technology has now allowed four strokes to pass the performance of these old two-strokes so it is a moot point in 2006.
       Just an old guy expressing his opinion (Another year older yesterday). I highly respect all who race for top speed regardless of venue or MPH. It takes a special person to do it and I consider us a family.  Have a good winter as we all plot and plan for next season.     Larry

[Salty Blaster]

Gee Mr D, you had me fooled there for a minute, until I went to the facts as found in the '05 rulebook.

    You stated, "Next you will want to lock in records, regulate boost, % of nitro & bump a Vincent from push rod class."
Really Mr D, it sure doesn't appear so in the rulebook.

No where in the section 7 motorcycle rules,and I looked from stem to stern, do the rules limit boost or percent of nitro. Nowhere. Hopefully you will enlighten us with your knowledge?

As far as Vincents go, there are currently four Bonneville records held by Vincents.

MVG 1000cc    set in '96
PPG  1000cc    set in '00
MF    2000cc    set in '88
MPSF2000cc    set in '88

Perhaps you could educate us as to the stories surrounding the three records that aren't push rod. Just the facts please.

I'll ask again, why "target" one bike and one racer to change his records after the fact, especially since they were set under the rules of the day?

"Lock in the records" Well now that you mention it, I'm all for that.

I think any record set should  be recognized and not legislated out of existence or until it is superseded on the salt. Perhaps SCTA should consider using an * like Baseball did for Maris's record. You know, record set with more games played than Babe. Now that will open up a can of worms!

[Stan Back]

Methinks Jack was just using a little No Horsepower Raising Allowed humor.

[JackD]

You will have to read it again and understand it this time. I said "NEXT" You will want to do the things I mentioned in the interest of slow.
As is proposed a dirt bike that was mass produced without a fairing can never run one in Modified class. I was told by a Vincent expert that it does not meet the convoluted rules for a push rod motor.
I used Guthrie as an example and I would suggest he was the target.
At this point if you take a street bike and make the same hp as a class A, guess what. Shame on the class A bike that is slower than the more restrictive M class.
Protection of the slow is it's own reward.
While the class fixing of things that are not broken seems to be an objective, some of the safety and liability issues that threaten the future of the sport should be of more concern.
Multiple violations of the printed rules will do more to damage the sport than anything you ever got beat with.

[Salty Blaster]

For what it's worth, niether will an aircooled BMW qualify under the pushrod rules.

[JackD]

I have a FOB, stock Honda, with water cooling,V Twin, fuel injection, 4 valves per cylinder, turbo that is push rod.
Why did you assume I was speaking of an upper limit? I and others have set multiple Fuel records on day old gas from the previous gas record.    Go figure.
Find out what they are hiding from under that rock.

[Salty Blaster]

OK Mr D

Who are "they", you refer to?

[TouringComet]

As far as Vincents go, there are currently four Bonneville records held by Vincents.

MVG 1000cc    set in '96
PPG  1000cc    set in '00
MF    2000cc    set in '88
MPSF2000cc    set in '88

Perhaps you could educate us as to the stories surrounding the three records that aren't push rod. Just the facts please.

I think the '00 record is actually P-PV, which is production frame, production vintage engine, I don't think that is technically a push rod class.  I think P-PP is a production push rod class.

[Salty Blaster]

Thank you, you are correct.  

[panic]

No 2-stroke has a 2-1 advantage due to # of cycles per RPM because they're all horribly inefficient.
Various sanctioning bodies have weighted 2-strokes vs. 4-strokes over the decades, but never successfully even-up. The oldest NHRA actually gives 2-strokes an ADVANTAGE (remember, this was pre-expansion chamber).
The better rules separate them more or less as
1. water cooled, fan cooled vs. air-cooled
2. disc valve, reed valve vs. piston port
3. single vs. multi
So there may be 3 or more classes per displacement, with the fastest given a 3/4 or 2/3 displacement handicap over 4-stroke.

[John Burk]

About 20 years ago the Orbital Engine company in Australia made some advancements in 2 cycle engines that included unjecting fuel directly into the cylinder like a diesel . The big three American auto manufacturers were facing the upcoming stiff milage requirements (1989 ?) and all agreed all future high permormance high fuel milage cars would need to use the new generation of 2 cycle motors . Ford and GM were licensing Orbital's designs and Chrysler was working on their own design .
  Congress decided/was bribed to back off the tough CAFE milage requirements before they took effect and the whole 2 cycle car thing was forgotten . Maybe some day they'll be back .
   My Aussie friend who works for Orbital told me about this in the 80's but I don't know more details about the engines . He said with the direct injection a 2 cycle runs cleaner than a 4 cycle not to mention being cheaper and lighter .

[JackD]

Well that answers it. If you don't understand them, legislate them out of your way.