Author Topic: How would you feel if  (Read 15321 times)

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racin jason

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How would you feel if
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2005, 09:20:33 PM »
hey joe, i think an unlimited class is what we need. no rules or limits. this will keep the old school and and m class record holders from being displaced by INNOVATION andTECHNOLOGY!!!!! i vote for more racing and  smaller rule books!

Offline 1212FBGS

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How would you feel if
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2005, 10:56:09 PM »
silly Canadian! Can't ya read English? I mean the rule book! We already have an unlimited class! Its called "streamliner"

Offline JackD

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Ya all musta
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2005, 11:03:33 PM »
Quote from: 1212FBGS
silly Canadian! Can't ya read English? I mean the rule book! We already have an unlimited class! Its called "streamliner"


said it in American and the translation to English is taking a little longer  Eh?
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline joea

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How would you feel if
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2005, 11:39:25 PM »
silly socal (kent)..................

"YOU" HAVE A SEMI UNLIMITED (NO TC) STREAMLINER  STRAPON (IN) CLASS........

WE DONT HAVE AN UNLIMITED """"""SIT ON"""" PARTIALLY STREAMLINED
CLASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GUYS WHO WANT THE BEST PROTECTION AND AERO CAN
RUN STREAMLINED.....................

GUYS WHO WANT TO ""RIDE"" A BIKE DESERVE SOMETHING ELSE.............

THERE ARE ALOT OF AERO NO-NO'S.........THERE ARENT ANY RULES
PROHIBITING YOU STREAMLINER GUYS FROM TRYING THEM.............

Offline JackD

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You forget
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2005, 11:52:04 PM »
You forget that all the bikes that are in excess of the partial streamlined rules have crashed. The safety measures required for them has resulted in the injury rate you have.
The liability associated with a sit on bike is well studied and documented. The conditions at Bonneville are not as forgiving as they might be elsewhere. Just the wind can change speed and direction faster that you can anticipate it or correct.
I hope the burden of that information doesn't make you fall.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

racin jason

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How would you feel if
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2005, 01:55:58 AM »
sorry kent, unlimited "sit on" bike class is what i meant. we need to promote and encourage innovation in aero etc.  plus this class would be a place for a bike or bikes with no class!! if we cant run wierd stuff on the salt where else can you go?

Offline John Noonan

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How would you feel if
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2005, 02:15:20 AM »
I like things the way they are, after all the top record at Bonneville for an open bike three years ago was 238 and in a few years the fastest record set is 252 (FIM) and 246 SCTA/BNI  (Diff bikes)

The reason I shoot for top speed at Bonneville and El Mirage is the deep rooted history and to be able ride the same salt as Don, Nolan and Jim is an honor.  After all I never heard that Vesco "raced" at Maxton..

Offline JackD

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Actually
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2005, 02:17:59 AM »
You can not run on the salt without the permits and under the accepted rules that include measures that require a degree safety and insurable. The limitations are well known and demonstrated.
The bikes have a remarkable safety record for  reasons that includes limitations and appropriate provisions. The fastest bikes have picked up a large percentage in just the past few years within those rules.
You might want to check with the pedal bike racers to get some of their ideas and see why they crash,
or the gravity powered racers and see how they do.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline JackD

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Be careful
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2005, 02:25:09 AM »
Don't compare your history with theirs unless you know it.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline Salty Blaster

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How would you feel if
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2005, 09:40:54 AM »
Revisiting the '05 modified rules section 7.F there does seem to be a contradiction within the same paragraph concerning the frames of production bikes.

The question is ... What is a production frame and is it available to all competitors and subject to modification for competition?

Perhaps there should be a review to elevate any future M "factory produced road racing and off road motorcycles and models of which less than 500 were produced. Factory limited production or Works models are included in this class." to open class.

Since factory racing bikes, limited production and "works" models are not available to the general public this should move them up to the Open class and Unlimited engines. That would, in my opinion level the competition field to more realistically represent a true production based frame / engine that is modified and yet generally available to all potential competitors.

As stated in an earlier post I'm not for moving records around or subjectively eradicating or restoring past records. Certain individuals that represent vested views or act as gatekeepers might be inclined to skew or subjectively influence the results.

Let all current records stand as recorded. New rules will en effect create new records in the future and all the efforts under the old rules will still be recognized.
Go faster, just don't eat the salt!

landracing

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How would you feel if
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2005, 10:47:07 AM »
Quote from: 1212FBGS
Joe
I don?t know how it could have been unanimous since your bro is on the committee there should have been at least one vote for it.


Kent,

Im not on the committee.... That I am aware of... And if my name is listed I have not received any information on any rule changes.

Jon

Offline JackD

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You make it sound like
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2005, 12:00:45 PM »
the "Secret Society" has prevailed again, but that is not such a secret.
The target bike in M class is Guthrie's TZ Yamama bike that was produced in excess of 500 and generally available to the public. Many off road bikes were produced in excess of 500 also and are not legal for production because of lighting for example. The effect of the rule would be to bump them into class A also. Basically the HP is unlimited in a sit up bike and within the limits of the class you have to figure out how to go faster.
Class A should only have limits with respect to safety and power type. Who cares where you have your feet or how long it is. Keep it within the established bounds of safety and let them fly.
If you got beat by a lessor bike, the result is you got beat.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline Salty Blaster

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How would you feel if
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2005, 01:16:50 PM »
Agreed ... class A should be open and governed only with the bounds of rider and spectator safety.

My point is, Modified should be an extension of a stock, once street legal bike. Any other factory specials, racers, off road or specialty bikes should automatically be classed in Altered in the future.

Here's why. Back up to Production Rules.

Rule 7.E .1 Production   '05 Rulebook, first paragraph:

"A standard production street legal motorcycle of which 500 or more have been produced and which are available for sale to the general public through retail motorcycle dealers and is completely equipped with full lighting equipment, frame, forks, wheels, brakes, gas and oil tanks [if oem], fenders and seat."

Now move forward to Modified which is the next step in bike classification. Modified should be a direct extension of a production bike. The bone of contention is the short paragraph allowing factory road racing and off road motorcycles to run M class. It is contradictory and seems to have been placed there many years ago so these bikes could go for M class records when they should have been originally placed in A open class to begin with.

This leads us to today's question, whether to move or not to move records around to suit someones current agenda. Why not change the M class rules for '06 by moving these clearly originally non-street legal bikes to A class for the future and move forward as life does?
Go faster, just don't eat the salt!

Offline JackD

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Your sence of histort fails you.
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2005, 07:34:52 PM »
The sentence that included evolution of a street legal was added in poor judgment and contrary to the rules from the first day of running on the Salt.
If you think that a dirt bike for example should only run in Class-a, then you are confused about a sit up bike from the start.
When the fastest bikes are sit up bikes that are derived from street bikes and can be run on the street, it tells me that someone has figured out how to go fast and others have not.
To change the rules to benefit those who have not figured it out is it's own reward.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline Salty Blaster

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How would you feel if
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2005, 08:41:33 PM »
The poor judgment is your personal frame of reference to reality. Whether the rule was instituted when Dinosaurs walked the earth or last year it is what it is ... the rule, and is concurrent to all applicable records.

As far as dirt bikes, if it has lights, horn, turn signals and can be licensed for the street than the production dirt bike qualifies under the rules and should be allowed to progress to modified. If it did not begin life as a general production bike available to all through a dealership than it should go directly to Altered. Born of dirt or asphalt is not in question, but was it licensed for the street.

By the way, why single out one particular bike and rider?
Go faster, just don't eat the salt!