Author Topic: Block o-ring options  (Read 5513 times)

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Offline Hans Blom

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Block o-ring options
« on: June 16, 2010, 12:45:10 PM »
I am familiar with the tried and true method of o-ringing you block in conjunction with copper gaskets, but I was wondering if any of you guys ahd tried anything else. I am putting together a blown GMC and it ahd headgasket blowing issues enven before boost( I will deck and chamfer head bolt threads)....my question is in reference to a visit i had a few weeks ago to a collegues community 'hotrod' garage. About 25 guys rant a 3 story brick building and each have thier own little work space....anyway, he was giving me a tour of the place and was showing me some of the other guys stuff and one had a BMW M5 that was gettinga turbo bigger than my head and he was installing some sort of sheetmetal looking compressable ring that you inset in the top of your bore after it is notched by you machine shop. Supposedly you use these things with stock type head gaskets? Every heard of them? I'm going to go by and inquire to get a name of the product. It just seemed offhand much cleaner and simple than that damn 041 wire, and being one piece it has no gap at all where the wire meets....that has always bugged me...Hans

fyi, I just started a thread on my blown 270 GMC build over on the Inliners.org forum in the 'boosted' section. I figure since it's for my street truck, I didn't need to take our focus away form racing since we only have 58 days and 13 hours till we need to be ready at the salt....I know several of you guys frequent both sites.

Offline Hans Blom

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Re: Block o-ring options
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2010, 09:28:25 AM »
Found this....I guess this is what alot of the import high boost turbo guys are running:

http://www.ferriday.co.uk/copper/copper.shtml

Ferriday Sealing Rings (Patent applied for) seal the combustion area with no need for wire rings or any machining to the block or head.  These are currently in stock to suit 28 different bore sizes, from 41mm to 101mm.  More sizes inc. special shapes (e.g. for side-valve engines) can be made to order, special "siamesed" rings for cylinders 2 & 3 of the Austin Rover "A" Series engine are also in stock.  The FSR system has already succeeded where other gasket types have failed - can be found in Danny Kirk's 11.1 second Cosworth Sapphire 4x4, & Mick Rogers' 10.5 second Cosworth Cortina.  Modern sealants prevent coolant loss, with the option of using micro-thin copper or rubber "O" rings around oil galleries.  Our software will calculate the effect that each different thickness of copper gasket will have on your compression ratio

Offline Dmax65

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Re: Block o-ring options
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2010, 10:27:32 AM »
Sounds like what I've been using on our diesel race engines. It's a nitrogen filled stainless steel ring that fits into a receiver groove in the top of the bore. The stock gasket then just seals the coolant and oil. Works great as a one time use only seal, but it's a bit expensive. Plus, once you're commited on machining the block there's no going back to a conventional gasket. Indy cars and other high end endurance racers have been using them for years.
I get mine from Garlock.
http://www.helicoflex.com/

Offline jimmy six

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Re: Block o-ring options
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2010, 11:55:27 AM »
Hans. I responded on the Inliners Site...Good Luck..JD
First GMC 6 powered Fuel roadster over 200, with 2 red hats. Pit crew for Patrick Tone's Super Stock #49 Camaro

Offline maj

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Re: Block o-ring options
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2010, 06:54:12 PM »
From ferriday.co
3-  Wired Block, sometimes with Receiver Grooves - A more aggressive sealing method is to machine a groove into the top of the block and inlay a piece of wire that protrudes to "bite" into the copper gasket.  If a "receiver" groove is machined into the head the wire will push the copper into the head groove - this is very aggressive & very effective.  I'd be happy to advise further, and can help with all machining processes

This is what i use , very effective with the use of a very thin film of silicone for liquids
sometimes difficult to remove the gasket from the receiver grooves without damaging it
Also difficult to find a shop that can do it right

Offline krusty

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Re: Block o-ring options
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2010, 07:21:50 PM »
Hans - As DMax65 said, nitrogen filled rings have been around for quite a while and work quite well. We used them in 1985 on our  Porsche 924 Turbo Trans Am racer. They work great!  But you must be (block) committed, as there is no turning back.     vic

Offline Hans Blom

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Re: Block o-ring options
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2010, 05:00:02 AM »
The nitrogen filled rings are definetely trick, but like you say you must be committed to them. With thier cost and one time use I don't think they are an option for a motor that will likely see quite a few head removals in it's beginning stages. I'm going to look into the GraphTiteâ„¢ gaskets from Best Gaskets which JD gave ma a lead on. Maybe these with a Ferriday ring could to the trick with no block machining. This is going on my GMC 270 and is more of a project to learn the ins-outs of the GMC with low boost(for now). It will be a street motor in it's first incarnation and I would love to build a full race version as many on this board can attest too you must be very committed if you want a record with one of these motors...Thanks guys. Hans

On the copper gasket, say you pull your head, which you have reciver grooves machiend, and teh gasket sticks to the head....I assume you ALWAYS want to remove teh gasket form both side and clean and re-apply sealant for cooling passages?  Do you anneal the gasket ever or just replace?

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Block o-ring options
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2010, 08:58:40 AM »
We ran the solid copper gasket with the receiver groove in the head and the wire in the block in the late seventies on a BBC. When we installed the gaskets we only used a little silicone around the passages and even though we were using head studs, there wasn't that much challenge pulling the heads. Occasionally we used to anneal the gaskets as routine maintenance.

Pete

Offline gotzy

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Re: Block o-ring options
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2010, 12:07:51 PM »
he was installing some sort of sheetmetal looking compressable ring that you inset in the top of your bore after it is notched by you machine shop. Supposedly you use these things with stock type head gaskets?

Sounds like Pyramid rings to me, top of the bore is grooved and the pointed rings installed which cut into the head to create the seal.  My understanding is that they don't compress though.  The stock type head gaskets are only there for water passages sealing only.  Apparently it's what the F1 boys used back in the turbo days and I've heard of some LS1 boys doing it in Europe, could be the same crew.  Ask the guy with the BMW got them from a guy who drag races a blue Nova as he's the guy I saw on LS1tech.com