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Author Topic: Twin Engine Panther from England  (Read 54801 times)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #135 on: December 02, 2010, 09:46:16 PM »

The Triumph fires at 360 degree intervals and it works great with a collector.  The header pipes upstream from the collector are the same length.  Both cylinders respond to the collector the same way at the same rpm.  The engine is in balance.

The collector on the 360 degree firing Panther engines might be problematic.  The header pipes are at different lengths where they are joined.  Header length affects power characteristics.  The collector setup might help one engine at the expense of the other and create an imbalance in the system.   
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panic
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« Reply #136 on: December 02, 2010, 11:25:41 PM »

Yup - getting the primaries equal is fun.
As Walter Kaaden said 50 years ago (paraphrased) "you'll know when the pipe is correct when it burns your leg, drags on the ground, and requires at least one major component to be relocated".
I'd use 2 megaphones - they're far easier to adjust after construction by adding extensions to the primaries or swapping to alternate cone shapes.
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #137 on: December 03, 2010, 12:53:16 AM »

This is not intended to disrupt Sumo's thread.  The issue of the English magazine The Classic Motor Cycle on American newsstands (November 2010) has a feature article on a restored Panther.   There are a lot of pictures.  Now the thread is returned to Sumo...
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Kansas Bad Man
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« Reply #138 on: December 03, 2010, 10:27:48 AM »

will be firing 360 apart for a kick off, dont know what ill end with but it wont be at the same time - that would be like trying to ride a jackhammer


Howdy Sumo,

The hardest thing in building a twin engine motorcycle is to couple the engines together.  I personally have been around those who have undertaken that monumental task, and have myself undertaken the task of coupling two engines together, and making the coupling system live.  If you couple the two Panthers 360o apart, the life of the coupling belt will be zip all.  It'll never last a run at Bonneville.  Before I coupled my two supercharged Vincents together I built a test twin engine Mustang motorscooter.  The engines were 21 c.i. flat head engines.  I experimented with firing them 360o apart, which shook like hell, and would disintegrate the 50 coupllng chain in short order.  The only way to make the coupling chain live was to time the engines as near simultaneous as possible, and best results were achieved when the front cylinder fired 5 to 10 degrees before the rear cylinder. 

                                     Max
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SUMO
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« Reply #139 on: December 03, 2010, 10:59:06 AM »

Great info thanks. Belts are relatively cheap so I can experiment. I'll try getting them firing close and see what happens. At least this system let's me change easily
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Stainless1
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« Reply #140 on: December 03, 2010, 10:04:53 PM »

Great info thanks. Belts are relatively cheap so I can experiment. I'll try getting them firing close and see what happens. At least this system let's me change easily

if your belt are cheap you are probably using the wrong belt....
Something cogged like the Gates Polychain might be in order.  They are not cheap but they will take a lot of abuse.
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Stainless
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MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #141 on: December 05, 2010, 07:02:52 PM »

Providing adequate flywheel effect at the cranks can minimize the “connection” problem, make life easier on the rest of the drivetrain, and help with traction.  Might even make 360 degree timing workable, which would smooth out power delivery even more.

Kill the problem at the source instead of dealing with it everywhere else.
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panic
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« Reply #142 on: December 05, 2010, 10:58:11 PM »

best results were achieved when the front cylinder fired 5 to 10 degrees before the rear cylinder.

Takes the slack out of the primary drive before #2 fires?
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SUMO
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« Reply #143 on: December 06, 2010, 01:43:53 AM »

If there's one thing panthers aren't short of it's flywheel effect ...

Providing adequate flywheel effect at the cranks can minimize the “connection” problem, make life easier on the rest of the drivetrain, and help with traction.  Might even make 360 degree timing workable, which would smooth out power delivery even more.

Kill the problem at the source instead of dealing with it everywhere else.

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SUMO
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« Reply #144 on: December 08, 2010, 06:01:26 AM »

went home last weekend and collected the spacers off my dad that i had been bitching about making up myself on my little lathe, always good to have a dad with access to adult size machinery and knows how to use it

outer bearing supports also turned up and dropped in

ignore the junk hardware in it mock up only, and the crappy grainy mobile phone picture, it was bloody cold in the garage so i threw it together in the kitchen instead...

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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #145 on: December 08, 2010, 02:24:08 PM »

Junk in the kitchen?  It looks pretty nice and clean from here, save maybe for the beer case in the background.  But -- I guess that such is a standard in the work area of most racers. . .

Nice work - by your dad, you say?  Thank him for us.
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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« Reply #146 on: December 08, 2010, 02:47:45 PM »

yea hes a good old man and we get on great which helps. hes retired too so has spare time i can fill with machining tasks etc  grin
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Joshuacbassett
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« Reply #147 on: June 20, 2011, 10:16:51 PM »

What happened to this project? I live in Studham, slowly building a bike project of my own.
I drive a production car at bonneville every year if you guys make it out let me know!
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« Reply #148 on: June 20, 2011, 10:26:36 PM »

I PM'd Sumo a bit over a month ago.  I understand its at a point where he's working out a few details, but he assures me it's still under way.
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

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« Reply #149 on: June 20, 2011, 10:28:45 PM »

ah spot on. Thanks.
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Driver: Car #7550 1983 Dodge Shelby Charger, 8v 2.0L N/A G/PRO.
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