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Author Topic: What are the rules in terms of number sizing and enforcement of said rule?  (Read 7421 times)
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MiltonP
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« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2010, 08:48:30 PM »

Ted,  We used to have problems on road courses with magnetic numbers flying off on the faster cars.  Wasn't an issue for my slow Miata but could be for you.  You may need to add tape if they don't hold on the first pass.  I am happy to see that tape is allowed for the bikes as I might need some for class changes in Loring.  On the other hand, I am not so happy to see that this came up at the starting line even after the starter witnessed the approval at tech. 

It doesn't take much to get tempers flaring when it is hot and humid.  I think everyone needs to account for the conditions and try to be patient.  I almost always work on the track prep crew and worry that I will lose my temper over a similar issue after cooking out on the track.  It is hard to be sympathetic to the volunteer tech when you just cooked for hours out volunteering on track prep.  Luckily, we took breaks and got some relief this event so I wasn't tested this meet.  Last June, I was almost finished with this sport due to a issue over proof of production at tech following 5 hours of blowing weeds in 90 degrees.  Luckily a second tech stepped in and cleared it up.
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Cajun Kid
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« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2010, 09:07:46 PM »

Ted,  We used to have problems on road courses with magnetic numbers flying off on the faster cars.  Wasn't an issue for my slow Miata but could be for you.  You may need to add tape if they don't hold on the first pass.  I am happy to see that tape is allowed for the bikes as I might need some for class changes in Loring.  On the other hand, I am not so happy to see that this came up at the starting line even after the starter witnessed the approval at tech. 

It doesn't take much to get tempers flaring when it is hot and humid.  I think everyone needs to account for the conditions and try to be patient.  I almost always work on the track prep crew and worry that I will lose my temper over a similar issue after cooking out on the track.  It is hard to be sympathetic to the volunteer tech when you just cooked for hours out volunteering on track prep.  Luckily, we took breaks and got some relief this event so I wasn't tested this meet.  Last June, I was almost finished with this sport due to a issue over proof of production at tech following 5 hours of blowing weeds in 90 degrees.  Luckily a second tech stepped in and cleared it up.

Milt may I sum it up ?    "cooler heads prevail"  I was not there but do understand how the heat and long lines can take there toll on the course workers, the crews and drivers/riders,,, maybe worse for the bike pilots suited up in leathers and no shade.

I enjoy this forum and enjoy debate, even "heated debate" is OK within reason,,, but there has to be a bit more to this than what we can all read here.

I came back to racing from a 16 year layoff.. the main reason was the LSR  sport/family in general and more specifically the LSR family atmosphere at MAXTON...

Let's all remember the Family and Friendly atmosphere we all need to PROJECT and PROTECT both on here and at the track.

The one thing about History is that it already happened and we can learn from it,,,, this incident is HISTORY,,, now it's up to all of us to get past it and LEARN from it.

See you all in 3 weeks.

Charles
 (still in pain from the shingles, but well enough to get on my soapbox)  LOL


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bvillercr
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« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2010, 10:47:16 PM »

Charles, good luck with your Shingles.  How's the Lyrica working or do they have you on something else? cheers 
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Thomas_Cronan
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« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2010, 07:04:17 AM »

READ WHAT MR TURK PUT, IT WAS HOW THE RIDER RE-ACTED, AS HE SAYS IN THE DRIVERS MEETING STARTING LINE WINS! IT WAS HOW THE RIDER RE-ACTED AND TREATED THE OFFICIALS! IF HE WOULD HAVE KEPT HIS COOL, I BET HE COULD HAVE FIXED THE ISSUE IN 3 MINS, JUMPED RIGHT BACK IN LINE AND RUN! THATS JUST MY THOUGHTS, AND THE RULES ARE THE RULES.
TC
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shiphteey
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« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2010, 11:38:21 AM »

READ WHAT MR TURK PUT, IT WAS HOW THE RIDER RE-ACTED, AS HE SAYS IN THE DRIVERS MEETING STARTING LINE WINS! IT WAS HOW THE RIDER RE-ACTED AND TREATED THE OFFICIALS! IF HE WOULD HAVE KEPT HIS COOL, I BET HE COULD HAVE FIXED THE ISSUE IN 3 MINS, JUMPED RIGHT BACK IN LINE AND RUN! THATS JUST MY THOUGHTS, AND THE RULES ARE THE RULES.
TC

Actually, the rider reacted very calmly intially to the unprovoked and wanton singling out by the starter and was respsectful and reasonable...initially.  But given the starter's unwillingness to let the rider down the track and NO OTHER RIDERS HAVING THE SAME THING HAPPEN TO THEM changed things a bit.  Make sense?  How calm should one stay given continued irrational and unfair rulings by said starter?
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 11:39:52 AM by shiphteey » Logged

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« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2010, 12:42:44 PM »

Let me try to state this more clearly for everyone’s benefit on the rule.

Yes the rule in print states that the numbers must be what, 3 inches? (don't have the  rulebook in front of me) This is a product of our rules being based on SCTA rules. However, our track is not as distant as the SCTA tracks, we only have one track & our tower can see the vehicle start to finish so the ability to read the number from the tower doesn’t pose a safety concern or issue for us. Due to this and some other “old news” I won’t get into now, it has been officially overruled and for MANY years vehicle numbers written on tape unequivocally PASS TECH INSPECTION and are 100% legal. This is a decision that was made by the officials and when I say officials I mean the ECTA officers as written in the rule book IE: Race Director, President, head of tech... This is not an uncommon practice within the ECTA in regards to issues & rules that are not safety related. This is largely due to the more relaxed nature of the ECTA and many people like it that way.

The starter questioned the numbers while wandering past tech & was specifically told they were legal. This was NOT over looked. It was reviewed and approved and the starter was aware of this.

If the officials decide to adhere to and enforce the rule as written I don’t think anybody would have a problem with that but it needs to be communicated at the beginning of the meet before any vehicles are teched so it can be enforced across the board.

Alternatively, as always, anybody can submit a request for a rule change and could easily request that it be written in the rule book that a vehicle number written on a piece of tape of a given size is acceptable.

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« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2010, 07:52:04 PM »

hmm. Sort of on topic here....

in April I brought my Buell S1w to Maxton.  The bike is a race bike with a bit of history and when I rolled it out of the trailer and to tech it still had the number plates and front number that it's had since it rolled out of the factory.  I chose not to change the side number plates to facilitate any photo taking ( people do like to take pics of stuff...so I thought keeping it original was serving the photogs).  I was asked at tech to change out the number plates...which were ready and in the trailer ( number plates that had my ECTA number and class)  this was done on that request.  I did not change the front number/fairing...mainly because it is not a location for an ECTA number nor was it in ECTA number format (2 digits).  On my second run I was asked at the starting line if I could put tape over them, even though the starter said he knew that was not my bike number, I replied positively and the next run, which happend to be in May the bike had two strips of blue tape across the 21.

Although not the situation this thread started out on, it does show that my #21 on the number plate went through tech (with a double inspection) and then did one run with no issues.

The situation this thread is about should have been dealt with the same way by the starter.  bring it to the rider's/driver's attention and ask them to correct it for the next run.

I do not see numbering as a safety issue but an ECTA operational issue, and the whole issue could have been dealt with differently ( probably from all sides)
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racer x
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« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2010, 05:02:34 PM »

just my two cents and I am sorry in advance. They are not worth it.
 
 I don't see anyone in the right here. And I see a lot of hard feelings among people I love. 
 First of all .If a rule is "Officially" over ruled for many years .It should be changed in the rule book . If it is not in the book .What is in the book IS the rule until the next printing. Why is this is important ?

  If some one goes real fast and sets a record without adhering to the rules in the book. Than someone else that just lost the record or I guess anyone else can Protest the run. Now the protest can be " officially" overruled .But WHY put yourself in that vulnerable position?Why would you show up without 3 inch numbers on you bike?  Are you trying to save tape?
 
 The started should as should anyone point out something during tech inspection.It is not to hurt the participant but to insure that IF they set a record they know all the rules are followed  . But if you see something and it is not a safety issue . Just say "get the numbers changed before you come back". But send them down the track . Don't make everyone wait while you argue over the amount of tape on the bike. Or the length of a fairing. Just point it out and send them on . If something is loose that is a different story

I did not see what happen that day I was not there. But please in June I would like to see hugs and hand shakes from the best people I have ever been around .


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« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2010, 11:59:05 AM »

Slim,
The "lax adherence" to the number size rule has been agreed upon. We've allowed numbers written on tape for many years. The starter that pulled him from the line questioned the numbers while the bike was in tech and was specifically told by the tech inspector that they were fine and passed tech. In fact, 3 techs signed off on the numbers.  I understand we're all volunteers here but what I don't understand is how a starter can override a non-safety related tech/impound issue when it was specifically asked and answered while the bike was being teched. I can understand if there was a safety issue, but this was an impound issue at best and the starter that made the judgement is not a trained motorcycle tech or impound tech.

I know we don't want to tick off our volunteers here but when a mistake, poor judgement or overstepping of bounds is made, why are we not correcting the issue with the volunteer? I get a repremand at just about every meet for inadvertently doing something wrong. It's OK to correct me as a volunteer when just about every time nobody is negatively effected let alone kept from running? Often times I'm corrected mostly for the appearance, as in, you're really OK but we don't want people to just do such & such so please don't do it. But when someone is singled out and not allowed to run we blame the racer? I don't understand how a volunteer that is not a trained motorcycle tech can overrule the decision of a trained motorcycle tech without discussing it with the head motorcycle tech or any other official beforehand. This was not just a on the line heat of the moment decision. It was asked & answered in tech and the volunteer took it upon themselves to override the ruling. I just don't get it.

So, to summarize, the undersize numbers written on tape has been officially allowed for many years and nobody should be called out on it without everyone with undersized numbers being called out. There were other underlying issues that brought on this decision some time ago. If any of the volunteers has issue with this I'm sure everyone is open to discussion to see if a change or futher adherence to the written rule should be made.

Just my volunteer thoughts.

So, does this make it "OK" to cuss out the starter (as was the case here)? Just curious.

I was screamed at by a starter (not the one in question, btw), to the point that his spit was on my face (even though another respected volunteer had authorized my actions), but I respected the track and his position. I guess I should have screamed back?

I would hate to see "double-standards" applied. Thanks for clarifying the proper trackside response to a starter/volunteer.

Shane
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 05:53:50 PM by Warp12 » Logged
bvillercr
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« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2010, 12:28:38 PM »

Why is anyone screaming, are we not adults?  Maybe someone needs a bitch slap. afro
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« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2010, 07:12:15 AM »

While we are all adults, not all act that way when placed in a position of authority, or when facing authority.
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Mike M.
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« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2010, 10:44:58 AM »

While we are all adults, not all act that way when placed in a position of authority, or when facing authority.


Over the years what I have found, is that most people do not mind or have a problem with Authority "as long as they are the one's with it".... cheers cheers

See you all on the 26th.

Charles

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E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
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Fastest Standing Mile at Ohio  203.343mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Maxton 196.967mph
Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
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