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Author Topic: What are the rules in terms of number sizing and enforcement of said rule?  (Read 7626 times)
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gearheadeh
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« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2010, 09:08:22 PM »

FAVORITISM.....I thought it was a West Coast problem

I have to say that from my viewpoint way up here in Canada, This thread sheds some BAD light on what is supposed to be fair and equal.
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DahMurf
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« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2010, 11:25:48 PM »

Slim,
The "lax adherence" to the number size rule has been agreed upon. We've allowed numbers written on tape for many years. The starter that pulled him from the line questioned the numbers while the bike was in tech and was specifically told by the tech inspector that they were fine and passed tech. In fact, 3 techs signed off on the numbers.  I understand we're all volunteers here but what I don't understand is how a starter can override a non-safety related tech/impound issue when it was specifically asked and answered while the bike was being teched. I can understand if there was a safety issue, but this was an impound issue at best and the starter that made the judgement is not a trained motorcycle tech or impound tech.

I know we don't want to tick off our volunteers here but when a mistake, poor judgement or overstepping of bounds is made, why are we not correcting the issue with the volunteer? I get a repremand at just about every meet for inadvertently doing something wrong. It's OK to correct me as a volunteer when just about every time nobody is negatively effected let alone kept from running? Often times I'm corrected mostly for the appearance, as in, you're really OK but we don't want people to just do such & such so please don't do it. But when someone is singled out and not allowed to run we blame the racer? I don't understand how a volunteer that is not a trained motorcycle tech can overrule the decision of a trained motorcycle tech without discussing it with the head motorcycle tech or any other official beforehand. This was not just a on the line heat of the moment decision. It was asked & answered in tech and the volunteer took it upon themselves to override the ruling. I just don't get it.

So, to summarize, the undersize numbers written on tape has been officially allowed for many years and nobody should be called out on it without everyone with undersized numbers being called out. There were other underlying issues that brought on this decision some time ago. If any of the volunteers has issue with this I'm sure everyone is open to discussion to see if a change or futher adherence to the written rule should be made.

Just my volunteer thoughts.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 11:32:17 PM by DahMurf » Logged

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jreken
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« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2010, 06:44:39 AM »

"officer!!! I've been speeding down this road all my life and now you're giving me a ticket"  Use that argument a he's going to tear your car apart 'til he finds that twenty year old "dooby" under the seat and then tear you a new one. Go to a sign guy, have him cut LEGAL size numbers (you can get temporary material that is good for a week) and put them on your CAR or BIKE. Case closed, don't point fingers, LET'S MOVE ON!!!!!  Concentrate on making your cars/bikes fast, safe and legal.


John
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relaxedphit
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« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2010, 07:09:31 AM »

I would like more formal training on most of the volunteer positions as well as "limits" of authority for all positions. However, the start line is no place for committee decisions. I agree that a question asked and answered has been adequately covered and that this is obviously more complicated than appears, but I hold by my statements about showing respect for the officials (not volunteers it seems) is always grounds for removal from that competition. Again, I wasn't there: I'm just saying....Sharing opinions is nearly always good for mutual understanding but this particular issue seems to gone out of our control.
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Warp12
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« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2010, 08:27:30 AM »

I firmly believe in equal respect for volunteers, officials, and competitors.

Regarding this particular situation, I would like to see all parties involved resolve this offline.

Shane
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sheribuchta
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« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2010, 11:08:55 AM »

its been said here that the number issue isnt a safety issue--let me ask you this ---if three tech people missed this on different bikes many times  then what else have they missed ?             willie buchta
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WildBro
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« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2010, 11:20:47 AM »

its been said here that the number issue isnt a safety issue--let me ask you this ---if three tech people missed this on different bikes many times  then what else have they missed ?             willie buchta

Willie, Huh where did you read they missed it?  It was excepted in tech, but something arose later.  Our safety teching is very good, don't question it.

Bill
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nrhs sales
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« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2010, 11:28:58 AM »

If I am reading between the lines correctly it sounds like this was a personality conflict between the starter and the racer.  Something that should have been resolved by the race director before it ever came to this forum.  maybe it was?   I'm not taking side just making an observation:

Just seems to be a lot of dissension between the racers and the organizers lately. If these kind of things continue I see a slow death of LSR racing as we know it.

It is already tough for a lot of folks to pay for this sport. Combine that with people thinking the different organizations do not care about them and they will choose to spend their money elsewhere. Bubs was very close to dying after the 2007 fiasco,  Luckily they listened and got peoples input on how to fix things.  If they had not I know I for one would not be a sponsor.

Now there will be folks reading this who say "that's fine, we don't want those folks at our race anyways"  That's all fine and dandy until you no longer have enough people showing up to pay for the track. then what?  This is a customer service issue even if it is ran by volunteeers. people are paying a lot of money to attend these races.  I know just to field our very cheap Buell Blast last year for Bubs cost us over $3,500 for the one race. To folks struggling that is not small change. Now combine that with the feeling that the organizers do not give a sheet about you and folks will not come back next year.   This is already happening in the AHDRA. I give that organization 1 more year before they are out of business.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 11:53:22 AM by nrhs sales » Logged
sheribuchta
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« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2010, 11:39:58 AM »

there is a rule in the rule book --tech either missed it or let it by --either way is not a good thing  --i have been dinged a couple of times in tech and was glad they caught something i missed i knew they were looking out for me ---the situation should have been resolved in tech -- i can see things getting by tech they are very busy folks---but it seems that 3 techs signed off on this one        willie buchta

i make comments based on information written here i wasnt there

i miss read your post i thought it said  inspected and it said excepted  ---to me inspected and missed is one thing but excepted against the rule is another matter--it could have been fixed in tech with a felt marker               
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 11:46:43 AM by sheribuchta » Logged
nrhs sales
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« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2010, 11:52:28 AM »

Willie,
I agree with you. There is a rule but if you enforce it on one person you need to enforce it on everybody. To even give a hint of favortism will destroy an event!
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DahMurf
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« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2010, 12:14:02 PM »

Let me try to state this more clearly for everyone’s benefit on the rule.

Yes the rule in print states that the numbers must be what, 3 inches? (don't have the  rulebook in front of me) This is a product of our rules being based on SCTA rules. However, our track is not as distant as the SCTA tracks, we only have one track & our tower can see the vehicle start to finish so the ability to read the number from the tower doesn’t pose a safety concern or issue for us. Due to this and some other “old news” I won’t get into now, it has been officially overruled and for MANY years vehicle numbers written on tape unequivocally PASS TECH INSPECTION and are 100% legal. This is a decision that was made by the officials and when I say officials I mean the ECTA officers as written in the rule book IE: Race Director, President, head of tech... This is not an uncommon practice within the ECTA in regards to issues & rules that are not safety related. This is largely due to the more relaxed nature of the ECTA and many people like it that way.

The starter questioned the numbers while wandering past tech & was specifically told they were legal. This was NOT over looked. It was reviewed and approved and the starter was aware of this.

If the officials decide to adhere to and enforce the rule as written I don’t think anybody would have a problem with that but it needs to be communicated at the beginning of the meet before any vehicles are teched so it can be enforced across the board.

Alternatively, as always, anybody can submit a request for a rule change and could easily request that it be written in the rule book that a vehicle number written on a piece of tape of a given size is acceptable.
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Miss you my friend Kiss - #1302  Twin Jugs Racing
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                         Official body guard to the A.S.S. liner cheesy
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« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2010, 01:04:37 PM »

So I am thinking my observation of a perosnailty conflict is correct then and it really had nothing to do with the rules? if so this is a bad precident to have happened.
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sheribuchta
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« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2010, 01:08:04 PM »

nhrs  right you are

deb   the number is not for the tower to read but for the starter---i know the number cant be read from the tower at a scta event ---in the scta and ecta rule book the rule is very clear (yes i have both ) entry numbers must be 3 in high and 1in wide on both sides of the bike ------page 71  7.b.1  ecta---a rule that isnt enforced on everyone but just a few is worse than no rule at all ---we are all in the same boat and should be rowing in the same direction ---hope to see you all at bonneville   willie buchta
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tedgram
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« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2010, 01:27:20 PM »

   I just bought 3 inch Magnetic numbers and letters. There was a $50 minimum so I got my numbers and all the letters for all classes I might be able to run into the future. Now if they can stay on at speed I will not have to use shoe polish.
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sheribuchta
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« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2010, 01:51:17 PM »

sheri and i use cheap vinyl numbers--if you want to change classes you can peel one off or add another --some of our numbers we have used    9  90  290   349  1349   8181  1818   easy numbers to change   willie buchta
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