Author Topic: Losing momentum - will probably not race this year  (Read 6065 times)

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Offline holdfastgreg

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Re: Losing momentum - will probably not race this year
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2010, 02:47:04 PM »
Will check that shop out, its a haul from here but if hes good its worth it!

On a brighter note, today when to get on my daily rider A65 and it wouldn't start - got a new battery - than the gas tank broke (petcock sheered off inside the bung.  Well life happens I guess.

Offline bearingburner

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Re: Losing momentum - will probably not race this year
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2010, 07:46:40 AM »
Hang in there. We have been working on a lakester in my basement for 9 years. Hope to see the runway late this year however. I have it extreamly important to have at least one person involved in any built. Helps keep up the interest and motavation.also two opinions on any problem seems to help getting it resolved quickly.

Offline landsendlynda

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Re: Losing momentum - will probably not race this year
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2010, 10:12:22 AM »
Greg

Don't give up, you definitely are not alone!!  You may not realize it, but every one of the racers on this forum have hit the same wall you are bouncing off of now...(sorry guys, I know you don't like the reference to "hitting" things),  they, like you, have had discouraging setbacks in their builds.  Look in the build diaries, read them, everyone has had some unexpected complication.  In fact, look at Cajun Kid...Charles has worked long, long, hours to get his new Stude ready for racing, but at the last minute, she wasn't ready.  Take your time, build your "Baby" the way you want her to be.  Forget the time line, just take each step, each day, each everything, one at a time.  If you can't race, then volunteer, it still keeps you close to "the Family" and we can all help keep you encouraged.  You've come too far to quit now, so it looks like it's time to put away the depression.  Look at what you have accomplished, that's progress!!!  What is the next thing you can do while saving up money for the next big expense?  Even if the only thing you can do is sweep the floor around your build, it's something!!  One of the smartest things you did was open this thread, you haven't lost momentum, you just needed some outside support and that's what we're here for!!  We won't leave you stranded and we won't let you give up!!!

Keep working!  Keep trying!!  You can do this!!

Lynda
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Offline Glen

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Re: Losing momentum - will probably not race this year
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2010, 10:26:35 AM »
Greg, Marlo has been building the Project 550 mph streamliner for 11 years but it's almost done. Many projects take time. You can do it and you won't be sorry in the end.
 :cheers:
Glen
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South West, Utah

Offline Beairsto Racing

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Re: Losing momentum - will probably not race this year
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2010, 11:40:25 AM »
Greg,
What are you building? Triumph, BSA etc? What year? What class? Do you plan on only running on the east coast?

Although a big fan of 60's Japanese bikes, I'm starting to warm up to the British iron and a few are creeping into the collection. I enjoy putting around on a '49 C11. I have a fellow restoring a '53 B31 for me. I'm seriously considering an 850 Commando when I get back home from Saudi.

As others have said, don't give up. Whatever you accomplish now, will just bring you closer to race day.

Cheers,
Scott
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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Losing momentum - will probably not race this year
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2010, 12:42:25 PM »
Greg, you mentioned an "A65" as your daily rider in a recent post.  I am not sure what you are using for the land speed engine.  Let's say you came into my shop years ago.

First I would say "The BSA twin is a good street engine and it has success in hillclimb and dirt track.  It is not a good engine for LSR.  The Triumph twins are much better for this use.  They have two cams that can be independently and accurately timed to give optimum performance.  The pushrods are shorter and lighter and the valve/rocker/pushrod geometry is better.  They will rev higher and not toss a pushrod.  The lubrication system is much, much better.  There are far more performance parts, tuning experience, and books available for the Triumph.  It is possible to put a Triumph motor in a BSA frame and make a TriBSA."

Next, I would mention "Standard operating practice on any BSA or Triumph twins that I build is to have the engine blueprinted before any performance work is done.  The crankcases, crank, cylinders, and cam(s) will be sent to a machine shop.  The machinist will make sure that the crankshaft axis is parallel to the cylinder deck, the cam bearings will be line bored, and the cylinders will be bored so their axes are perpendicular to the crankshaft axis.  No performance work will be done on an engine that is not blueprinted."  British machining was awful in those days.

Next, I would say "Triumphs and BSA's blow apart a lot due to errant spark.  The spark happens at the wrong time at high rpm.  Standard practice for performance engines is to install roller bearings on the shaft that rotates the points cam.  Best is to install the roller bearings and a pointless ignition.  The aluminum connecting rods these bikes use are somewhat marginal.  Steel rods and forged pistons are a must for high rpm motors, for either BSA or Triumph, and I like to have the crank balanced for the rods and pistons."  I recommended these things but did not insist on them.

Then I would say "The build I recommend is a hot street cam, slightly more compression, porting, and larger intake valves.  The BSA engine, especially, has a weak power transmission system and big horsepower causes problems.  The taper where the clutch attaches to the tranny main shaft is a weak point."  There is legitimate solution to this problem but it was expensive and I do not recall what it was.  My mickey mouse solution on my race bike was to spot weld the clutch basket to the shaft.  I ground off the weld when I wanted to pull the basket.  

There were more little tricks that I cannot recall.  The Triumphs could be made to go fast and the record books show it.  None of those are engines I built.  Mine went into cafe racers and choppers.  I long ago gave away all of my Whitworth and special tools and the machine shop is long gone.  The advice I gave people is still valid.  I hope it helps you.  

            

Offline holdfastgreg

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Re: Losing momentum - will probably not race this year
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2010, 11:56:33 PM »
Greg, you mentioned an "A65" as your daily rider in a recent post.  I am not sure what you are using for the land speed engine.  Let's say you came into my shop years ago.

First I would say "The BSA twin is a good street engine and it has success in hillclimb and dirt track.  It is not a good engine for LSR.  The Triumph twins are much better for this use.  They have two cams that can be independently and accurately timed to give optimum performance.  The pushrods are shorter and lighter and the valve/rocker/pushrod geometry is better.  They will rev higher and not toss a pushrod.  The lubrication system is much, much better.  There are far more performance parts, tuning experience, and books available for the Triumph.  It is possible to put a Triumph motor in a BSA frame and make a TriBSA."

Next, I would mention "Standard operating practice on any BSA or Triumph twins that I build is to have the engine blueprinted before any performance work is done.  The crankcases, crank, cylinders, and cam(s) will be sent to a machine shop.  The machinist will make sure that the crankshaft axis is parallel to the cylinder deck, the cam bearings will be line bored, and the cylinders will be bored so their axes are perpendicular to the crankshaft axis.  No performance work will be done on an engine that is not blueprinted."  British machining was awful in those days.

Next, I would say "Triumphs and BSA's blow apart a lot due to errant spark.  The spark happens at the wrong time at high rpm.  Standard practice for performance engines is to install roller bearings on the shaft that rotates the points cam.  Best is to install the roller bearings and a pointless ignition.  The aluminum connecting rods these bikes use are somewhat marginal.  Steel rods and forged pistons are a must for high rpm motors, for either BSA or Triumph, and I like to have the crank balanced for the rods and pistons."  I recommended these things but did not insist on them.

Then I would say "The build I recommend is a hot street cam, slightly more compression, porting, and larger intake valves.  The BSA engine, especially, has a weak power transmission system and big horsepower causes problems.  The taper where the clutch attaches to the tranny main shaft is a weak point."  There is legitimate solution to this problem but it was expensive and I do not recall what it was.  My mickey mouse solution on my race bike was to spot weld the clutch basket to the shaft.  I ground off the weld when I wanted to pull the basket.  

There were more little tricks that I cannot recall.  The Triumphs could be made to go fast and the record books show it.  None of those are engines I built.  Mine went into cafe racers and choppers.  I long ago gave away all of my Whitworth and special tools and the machine shop is long gone.  The advice I gave people is still valid.  I hope it helps you.  

            

I should promptly state that I am a BSA fan; not that Triumph's aren't better, BSA's just found a special place in my heart.  Second, I had the choice of building a Triumph or BSA twin, and thus decided with the A65 for numerous reasons.  I already have a daily rider A65, I have the tools and documents for them and more or less have a good feel for the motor.  I felt when doing this land speed deal that it was less about the record or the 'time to beat' and more about racing the bike and figuring out how to overcome all its shortcomings.  It would be meaningless if I just purchased a new bike and tweaked it to beat world records - whats the fun in that?  To me, the only thing I have to beat is the bike and when I overcome all its shortcomings than I'll feel I did something important regardless of the time I set.

So far in the build everything is torn apart and I'm sitting on fresh parts:
10.5:1 pistons, STD
MAP billet rods
Megacycle 400 degree cam
SS valves
Titanium springs
1 pc pushrods w/ new tappets
Britgaskets.ca full twin gasket set

Will need:
Ignition
Belt drive
32mm carbs (eventually, 30s are fine for the break in period.)

As for the bike in general, will be racing in the 650cc modified and partial streamling classed (push rod.)
Going to wake up early and get some more work done before its too late.

Offline Beairsto Racing

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Re: Losing momentum - will probably not race this year
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2010, 01:37:03 AM »
Greg,
I like your thinking...work with what you got, work with what you like.

There are lots of folks running fast with engines that might not have been considered the best choice for racing.

Please post some pictures of you build if you get time.
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Offline holdfastgreg

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Re: Losing momentum - will probably not race this year
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2010, 04:33:01 PM »
Greg,
I like your thinking...work with what you got, work with what you like.

There are lots of folks running fast with engines that might not have been considered the best choice for racing.

Please post some pictures of you build if you get time.

Will do!  I have a website dedicated to all my fiasco's but apparently the guy building it is in no hurry.  I haven't figured anything out frame wise yet...figured that'll come when the motors done.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Losing momentum - will probably not race this year
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2010, 12:51:37 AM »
Greg, I share your affection for the A-65.  I built both Triumphs and BSA's for people, but my bikes were always the A-65's.  Post some pix.  This seems like an interesting build. 

Offline bak189

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Re: Losing momentum - will probably not race this year
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2010, 10:01:22 AM »
A properly build A-65 BSA engine will beat a Tri. anytime.........my BSA powered roadracing sidecars would easily out run and beat Triumph powered outfits in the "old days".......but you got to know what you are doing........
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