LSR Tire Recommendations Needed

[hotrod22557]

Hello All.

I am an absolute virgin to LSR but I am building a Comp Coupe car....because it is on my bucket list!  I want to go 250 at Bonneville before the checker falls.  I am an engineer working in NASCAR Sprint cup so I have a lot of resources available and have been in the roundy-round racing game for a long time. (BORING!)

The car is coming along nicely-all tube chassis, IFS, all the latest NASCAR safety stuff. Lots of dumpster diving after work.  I am calling in a lot of markers to help out with the build-especially all my aero buddies.  Aerodyn is 1.2 miles from the house and a bunch of gear heads work there too. Maybe a midnight shift or two to help sort out the body.

I am ready to buy tires and wheels now. I have talked to the NASCAR Goodyear racing engineer and he says that the Drag  24.0-4x15 front runners will be fine for 200 MPH +/-  while I shake the thing down and before I bolt in some real steam!  For rears I do not have a clue and need some direction.

I am looking at extreme performance street tires with a Y rating (186 MPH) like the Continental DWS supercar tire.  I will be running Maxton before I head west in 2011. Some friends tried running CUP tires at Maxton but could not hook them up.  I think an aggressive open tread will help with grip on the salt and at nasty old Maxton.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings but I sure could use some good advice.

Thanks again!
 

[Glen]

Hotrod, welcome to the LSR site. A few questions from this side. First a name, 2nd what part of the country are you in, 3rd. Do you have a current SCTA & ECTA rule book. Nascar safety does not always meet our safety rules. What kind of body are you using for the class you want to run. These are things we really need to know in order to help you with the build. SCTA is very strict on the tire requirements and in most cases grooved tires don't work all that well on the salt. Not trying to discourge you we all want to help. Let us know and I am sure others will be asking some questions for you. Good luck on the build.

[hotrod22557]

Glen,

Thanks for the quick reply. 

My name is Mark and I live in the Charlotte NC area.....home of all the NASCAR teams. Maxton is 2 hours away.
Yes I do have a 2009 SCTA and ECTA rule book and have been following them closely. I have a lot of experience reading rule books now that NASCAR writes its rules in legalspeek for liability protection. I am keeping complete documentation (written notes, calcs, drawings, photos, material certs and receipts) if they are needed.  I do need information on the "log book".  Is it a formal book sourced from SCTA or is it simply a buid history of the car? What is the required format if any?

The cage is 1 3/4 x .120 wall mild steel (Rule is 1 5/8" but that is an oddball size here in NC so I used 1 3/4 because I have access to the bender at work). The body is a 1959 Nash. The wheelbase is stretched 24" and the roof slammed to maintain the 5" min windshield rule. Right now I plan on running the factory front sheetmetal (fenders and hood)  and see how it goes.  I can always build a nose in the future if is not slick enough.

As for the tires I placed a lot of thought on longitudinal traction.  Am I sideways on this?

Thanks again

[Seldom Seen Slim]

SCTA has a standard logbook -- and the ECTA now sells those (instead of the "old" ECTA book).  Get one -- for ten bucks -- and you'll have room for many, many events, room for inspectors to note thing that you should or might need to change, your comments, and so on.  It's a requirement to have a logbook.  SCTA ones are issued with a land speed racer chassis sticker to be affixed to your vehicle - and the book has the same number imprinted -- so the two stay together and th ey notes on what you did -- are always available to you and to the inspectors.

[SPARKY]

Call your markers:
LSR Goodyear 300 MPH rated go from 21" to 28" on 15"  

My suggestions for your build:
 very  frame Rigid
watch your scrub radius
aero front end lift

AND put 3 roof spoilers 45 90 45 so if you do go round  

because-- -- as you know around 190 up even bricks can fly  

[Glen]

Mark, see how fast replys are. You are going the right direction. Keep it up.

[Cajun Kid]

Mark,

I am near you,, I have an office in Salisbury and I live and have my shops in Midway/Welcome NC area.

I have 2 LSR Cars... a 1933 Ford Victoria and a 1953 Studebaker Coupe (still in final 6 weeks of a year plus build process) I run at Maxton and will run the 1.5 mile at Loring this year,, if my lil 255 cu. in. "E" Motor goes 200 at Loring, I will make the trip out west to Bonneville this year,, if not next.

email me sometime,, be glad to hook up and talk,,

Charles Venable
Venable Rods and Racing

cajunkid5690@yahoo.com

[Stainless1]

Mark, you didn't mention what motor you were using, but if it is in the 250 MPH class, for the salt, the tires must be rated for that even if you go 160.  Take Sparky's advice, get LSR tires if you can. 
Don't know what is required for Maxton, but I know someone will chime in on that one.        Joe T?
Remember to have fun.... 

[Stan Back]

Just to add on to Stainer's reply -- in SCTA you must build the car to the Bonneville class record that you're entered in.  Doesn't matter if you got a slower car without the potential (you think), you must build to the class record with roll bars, tires, fire suit, etc.

Stan

[hotrod22557]

All,

Thanks for all the quick replys.

So if the class record is 175MPH  Y rated tires will be OK?  (Y is rated at 186).  I b uilt the chassis/cage for the high end of the class even hough it will take some time to get there...if ever.  But I willo back and review it again.

Power is TBD  (maybe another marker) obsolute 800 HP cup engines are like cord wood around here...they are everywhere. But I was going to start with a little 5.0L small block or maybe something even smaller based on budget.

A friend at work wants me to run a 2.0L Toyota turbo engine that he has in his garage sitting under his bench.

Engine choice will be down the road a bit.

[SPARKY]

If you want to go faster you might as well get use to the seat"feel" with as close to the final configruation as possible

[Cajun Kid]

Mark,

With the abundance of 800 HP Cup motors around your area,,, how about arrange for a 302/305 cu in Small Block Chevy with 700 + HP to fall off a truck and end up in my garage,,, I need a "D" motor !!!!
(I have a 255 cu in "E" Motor and a 370 cu in "C" motor)
Charles

[jacksoni]

This, plus other info on the USFRA site, might help your insight also:

http://www.saltflats.com/traction.html

Enjoy- salt gets in your blood (other places too!)

[bvillercr]

This, plus other info on the USFRA site, might help your insight also:

http://www.saltflats.com/traction.html

Enjoy- salt gets in your blood (other places too!)

I would agree that on an open wheeled vehicle and streamliners wide tires would be problematic.  Open wheeled cars would have too much aero resistence and streamliner just don't have much room for them.  As far as doorslammers are concerned this article is based on non fact based and is subjective.  There are many fast cars that do use the "typical" skinny Bonneville tires, and that's fine for their cars.  But why?  You talk with many "experienced" racers about wide tires and the response you get from them is "your gonna kill yourself using those things".  So why would any new racers want to buck the system and give the wider tires a try?  The author above states "just look at the fast cars that run at bonneville and they use the skinny tire."  How about Gale Banks, he used a wide tire in the late 80's and went pretty fast with them.  We built our car with many of the designs that Banks used, including the wide tire.  I think with doorslammers the combination of a non-suspended car and wide tires could be the determining factor for spin outs because of the wheel rate being too high.  With our combination we have great traction, and if you listen to this author about fast cars just take his advice and look at the fast cars and their set ups and talk to the racers that are doing something different.  You may or may not take their advice, just don't knock it until you try it or go faster.

[Glen]

Having been in the timing trailer and old timing stands since 1983 I have probably seen more spins then most people at the lakes and on the salt. The wide tires talked about in 90% of the spins are the wide oval type and most with treads and in short wheel base vehicles. Sports cars have the worst record with these tires. Any car can spin regardless of the tire. Narrow MT's and Good years nor are the Nascar Daytona's  any exception.

A lot of spins are drivers trying to save it and over correct, others are steering ratios  being to quick. Roadsters seem to spin a lot but it seems there are a lot more of them. The thing is the wide ovals has a softer side wall and tend to flex when side loading. I will probably get some argument's on this but having timed thousands of runs over the years one looks at a lot of things and only tries to point out some of the history.