Volkswagen's $600 car gets 258 mpg

[Rick Byrnes]

But Joe that was 20 years ago.
Emissions, and safety has changed the car dramatically since then. (complexity and weight)

I remember in the early 80's Ford had a diesel Escort.  One of my friends commuted in one.  Reportedly over 75 MPG.
Didn't perform for Shit, but in a suburban commute, you don't need performance.  (so says him)

In a lot of the cases the cars have been there, but the largest part of the AMERICAN public does not want them.

The market drives the product.

The market will change.

The government will make the market change.

OOOPS sorry,

[joea]

But Rick, that was 20 yrs ago, there are more advanced engineering practices
and lighter weight materials today..........

Joe

[PorkPie]

This 258 mpg car is reality.

it's a two seater and was built to a safety standard which would still match to the today laws.

Ferdinand Piech drove this car on long distance (on regular base) at the Autobahn and on country roads with this 258 mpg.

The prize to sell this car was to the time he was built, calculated between 25 000 and 30 000 dollars.
But the market was not there to release them.

Currently VW developed, based on this car, a very similar car which looks a little bit more aggressive than the original.
The idea is to sell this one in a range of 20 - 25 000 dollars. the different is, that this new version is not so radical, also this car will be only good for 160+ mpg.....

There was the car which Piech drove and some more prototype - the number is between four and ten - depends how ready they was. The Piech car is now in a museum close to Sinsheim - not the big technic museum - a smaller one which is run by a NSU/Audi enthusiast. The owner got also a second prototype, from this one is only little known.

But the fact is that VW had built - what we call "a one litre (per 100 km/62 miles) car" - and this was proved on the street and not only on a test stand or on the PC.

The trouble with this concept is, that the most people don't like them, they have to miss there navigator, Ipod, electric seat.......also the air condition is minimised.

[Rick Byrnes]

But Joe,  just for the sake of argument,
at what cost.
If VW decided to not market their project in the EU, because of too high cost, what makes you think that the average American motorist will purchase. 
What is the distance border to border of West Germany?  Spain? France?  all three not even close to from Dearborn, to Bendover.

True urban cars have a place, but it will be a very long time before they are in use here.

YMMV (pun intended)

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Rick, this summer I'll try to pay attention to how many BMW Smart Cars we see on the interstates - out in the boonies.  I have seen many Priuses (?) going down the road on I-80 -- but that's not their intended use, is it?  I know that up here, where we get lots of snow, that the super-economy cars aren't as popular in less-snow areas -- maybe because the small amount of horsepower available isn't sufficient to move the car, contents, and the 12" of snow in front of the tires.

I'll stick with my 25 mpg truck.  Okay, 20 mpg in the winter in snow and four wheel drive, but still pretty good for a 7,000# vehicle.  And mine will tow a 26' race trailer across the Rocky Mountains without even changing gears.

[Rick Byrnes]

I wasn't going to go into electrics, and hybrids, but since you mentioned it, I agree that most if not all are designed for urban and suburban use.  I have seen a few Priuses on the interstate but they don't make sense.

I am still of the belief that the folks that purchase an electric or hybrid are simply making a statement.  (Green or whatever)
Otherwise they make little sense considering carbon footprint, and "Extended Useful Life" that is required.(150K design intent)
I personally think the SMART, and the Ford Ka, are wonderful vehicles, and if I still commuted 2.5 miles from Dearborn to Dearborn 6 or more times a week, I would probably use one.  Hell, I drive a souped up 50 cc Honda motorbike around town in good weather.
(I'm still scared of big motorbikes)

For me, for real trips I'll stick to my 99 Grand Marquis or the 99 E350 Diesel van.  (for the time being)
 

[Bob Wanner]

Rick, Bulletin, The wall came down 20 years ago, it's just Germany now..LOL
The car I believe Pork is referring to is the VW Up! Lite, which from the side profile is visually very similar to the VW-L1. But to be practical, it was widened to a four seater and is "going on sale" somehere soon.
Considering all the Bikey Trikey Streamliny small specialty outfits out there, I'd like to think a tandem car category would sell at least on a small scale. There's a lot sillier stuff on the road.
If this original VW-L1 reached  production status, the first generation Insights' Aero would pale in comparison, even as it is still currently the most Aerodynamic gas engined car ever produced.
Pork, if I ever make it back over there, there's about a half dozen Car guy museums within an hour of your place I need a tour of !
Bob W

[Crosley]

My 1981 VW Diesel rabbit got over 50MPH. 

I had a 1980  Rabbit diesel  I bought new ( on purpose) ,  easy 45+ mpg  all day long.  A strong head wind on a trip to Calliefornia brought the mileage down to about 38 mpg  as I had the pedal on the floor for many miles to maintain 50mph.

Sold  the Rabbit after I got back to AZ

 

[jimmy six]

My commuter/work car is a 2003 Honda Civic "HX" (now gone) 5 speed. Continously 38+ mpg with all town driving. With any freeway I get over 40. 13 gallon tank and my norm is 420 -440 miles and take a little over 11 gallons. Can't believe they stopped building any of the "H" models.............

[PorkPie]

Pork, if I ever make it back over there, there's about a half dozen Car guy museums within an hour of your place I need a tour of !
Bob W

Bob, the Wanner.....

About museums around my place....yes.....ask Joe Amo (joea).....that I can be a good tour guide

By the way - the one I wrote is not so well known - also this one is a two seater with also very narrow track - the VW Up! Lite is a other mpg idea from VW.....but one for the family.......the other is from the base idea more for single person who has a long daily drive to work and always drives alone....but if necessary could transport a passenger.....some people mention that the second seat is only a substitute luggage space for the 24 pack beer..... 

[fredvance]

Kind of like the back "seat" in my Toyota Tecoma.

[joea]

jimmy, according to my buddy Rick , we dont have
the technology to produce cars today that get the
mileage of cars 10-20 yrs ago d/t emissions/safety and
lack of interest....

luv ya Rick...

this car thing to me is a great reflection of our society......

Joe

[McRat]

In 1990, a typical V8 produced 220HP or less HP, and ran under 20 mpg highway.  Today, most all V8's are over 300HP, and even the pickups get over 20mpg, with some cars getting over 30mpg.  To put it in perspective, the four bangers should now have 150HP and get 75+ mpg.

Back on subject, I honestly believe there is a solid market for a narrow single seater with super high economy IF:

Configure it with optional add-on modules.  A storage module, a two passenger module, a supplemental 50HP power module.
Like a cross between a railroad car and a trailer, the modules could be easily plugged into the control module to form a train, and the vehicle be configured to perform multiple tasks. 

People Hauler - Add 2 passenger modules and a power module if in mountainous areas.
Delivery wagon - Add one or more storage modules and a power module if necessary.
Commuter - Control module only.
High Speed Commuter - Control module + power module.

[jimmy six]

joea...it's funny that the knowledge doesn't exist. All the smog checks my "H" has done in 7 years show almost zero emmisions.  I should say I run Mobil 1, change it once a year and have the air pressue at 40+ psi on the kinniest tires I can get.

Some say I'm cheap... I see it as able to buy pistons for my race car instead of fuel for the work car...............................

[Rick Byrnes]

BUT JOE
 
Actually of everyone on this list, I BELIEVE the knowledge, talent, and engineering process exist at one American car company to do just what we are talking about here.

After being a part of the Fuel Cell Fusion program, and going as fast as we did,  I believe young men like that group at Ford can do really great things in powering automobiles. 

But
I just don't believe that the small, cheap, economy car will sell in huge quantities to be more than marginally profitable in the US.
Actually I hope I am wrong,   After all, I'm just an old dinosaur who has been out of the design community since 1997 and earthshaking changes have occurred at Ford. As the companies current status shows, most of those changes are to the good.

It is not the same company I retired from.  I am thankful for that.
Sorry for making this a "Ford" commercial, I didn't intend to but sometimes shit happens.