saving place in line

[revolutionary]

Something in another thread got me thinking and kinda bugs me.  The practice of having a 'support vehicle' saving someone's place in line while they are in the pits dinking with their vehicle, refueling, changing chassis/body for class change, etc. I've seen this in person and seen some arguements ensue from people willing to speak out.  IMO it is just cutting in line.  If the vehicle isn't ready to run, it should not have a place in line.  When the vehicle is READY to make a pass, it should get in line.  Is there an official ruling on this or just a courtesy call?

[White Monster]

Daryl,

No, there are no "official" rulings or policies regarding this issue, just common sense, courtesy and the "integrity" that Keith is aways talking about at Driver Meetings and Rookie Orientations.

The only exception to this is the "hot bikes" that are on heated tire blankets which require a generator, which we obviously do not want in the staging lanes.  These positions in line are usually marked with a cone and/or the riders have discussed with the other racers in front or behind their "spot".

Common courtesy is the key here, but I must agree with you that having a support vehicle hold a place in line while the race vehicle is worked on, is not in the spirit of what we are about.

[SPARKY]

There is a "special line" for the fast cars at EL M and they tried it at B'ville this year will be glad to hear how that worked out and what kind of feed back.  Some really fast cars and bikes have a lot of things that they have to do differently.  We have seen cars that parked off to the side up front and then let the push car work its way through the line untill they were next, and wave everyone around untill they were ready to run because of car or weather --then ran next---220 plus affects bikes and cars diferently---now that we can run 3 my "paranoia" is to the next level---we station our own guy down course on the oppsite side from the stewards and towere at B'ville with our own cell phone contact about the course wind, just as an added precaution.

[White Monster]

We have seen cars that parked off to the side up front and then let the push car work its way through the line until they were next, and wave everyone around until they were ready to run because of car or weather --then ran next.

I don't think any racer has a problem with the situation you described, which is quite different from holding a place in line, when the vehicle is not really ready to run.

Also, unfortunately, we do not have the room or the luxury of extra space to allow vehicles to "sit around" until they are ready to run at Maxton.  We are limited to the width of the airport runway and that is all we have available to operate with (other than the cotton and peanut fields to each side).

I can see where it is extremely advantageous to do this at El Mirage or Bonneville, when you are in the open desert or salt flats though.

[relaxedfit]

This is a little off thread but Steve do you think we had less wrenching going on in staging this past season? It may have been just that I was up there a lot less or that we had fewer entries or that I'm just wrong. I know there will always be last minute adjustments and things happen, but I think between limiting access on the road, pre-stage, Al's training (of a great team) when he wasn't with us, and racers just plain being ready to race really kept it going.

[White Monster]

I don't think the members here will mind a small hijack Ken and yes, I agree that things did seem to move very well this season.

Obviously, our goal is to safely put as many vehicles down the track as possible in the limited timeframe we operate, to ensure maximum enjoyment of our paying customers.

But sometimes things happen (that's racing afterall) and we usually manage to work around vehicles and crews that have to make a last minute adjustment or fix.  We don't want anyone making a run, that isn't as ready as possible.


I don't think that we had fewer entries, we seemed to manage to stay busy and usually have to turn some hardliners away at the end of the racing day.  Racers just plain being ready to race is a big help and we really appreciate it.

[LSR Mike]

The ECTA needs to consider using a lineup number like El-Mirage. They use vehicle standings in points to establish lineup position. everybody gets a run,1 thru to the last guy, then they start over. At Maxton, the bikes make a run then speed thru the pits back to the starting line. The cars stop, pack the chute, etc...

The ECTA keeps a point system for season standings, IMHO it's time to use it and control the lineup so everyone gets a pass before people start getting second runs.

equal opportunity for all racers....

[dw230]

One of the main reasons for the El Mirage lineup was changed to its present form was that there would be people arriving at the lakebed on Tuesday or Wednesday to save line up spots. As many know, George Callaway's ranch is adjacent to the lakebed and his club members would keep their cars there betweenmeets. George would tow the cars out to save line up spots.

We did away with leaving trucks or trailers in line too.

Good luck with this issue,
DW

[Cajun Kid]

LSR Mike,

I am not sure Maxton is having a problem.  Seems like the workers (and racers)  work well together and things run quite smooth. Only when a major disruption occurs does it get just a wee bit slow.. but works out very well.

"IF" and that is a big IF,, Maxton ever gets to the point that we have to go to a  line up order/system, then  I would think that using points ranking would be a good way to line them up for the FIRST run of each day.  That way each entry is "mostly" assured to get one run each day.   

After the first run each day (based on points) all subsequent runs go by our current and courteous system.,.(first come first served)

Just my thoughts...

Charles

[Seldom Seen Slim]

I've waited in line at Maxton and USUALLY the other competitors are cool about not jumping places.  There have been a good number of instances where I've seen a bike go right by me -- but said bike is one of the heavy-hitters and is going up to get the tire warmers back on the rubber.  They leave a cone or a crew member in place in the line, though, so nobody gets shorted. 

However -- there've been more than a few instances when a non-tire warmer bike has gone sailing by me and the others in the line.  I don't jump out to stop the rider (usually don't notice 'til he's gone on past me and I don't want to run like the dickens to catch up), but - - I'm still in line, waiting and shooting the breeze with the other racers in line, when that same bike goes past me AGAIN -- having made a run and getting back in line to make another, still in front of me.  That's when I'll get a vehicle number and let the race director know what's happening.

And the times when we've had to end racing for the day while vehicles are still in line -- well, Mark Amhrein moseys down the line and marks down in order of appearance the vehicle number -- so we can get back in the same (relative) position when racing resumes the next day.

To sum it up:  I wouldn't be upset if ECTA adopted a numbering system -- let the #1 - 10 vehicles from last year's season go first, then rely on some well-thought out system of letting all the other racers get in one run before beginning second runs.  Hey -- we could use vehicle numbers -- yeah, that'd be great.  We run #439 -- and lots of the Maxton numbers are 4 digits long.  Sure -- we'd be near the front of the line that way.  Great idea.

[relaxedfit]

Never been west of the big muddy, probably never will; but check our run logs. How many other venues get racers down the track every 2 minutes?

[Cajun Kid]

Ken, I agree...

SSS... I have a 3 digit number as well !!!  

I really don't think we have a problem,,, maybe an occasional "line jumper" but we can self police this for now, as we always have.

But if we ever had to use a system,, year end points would be better than car or bike number,, (everyone would be trying to get new lower #s).. Oh well ..and like I said before,,, if we had a system,, I would only employ it for the FIRST RUN of each race day.

Charles

[LSR Mike]

Bonneville and El Mirage average 2 minutes a run... been tracking it for a couple years. The issue isn't the number of runs, or how fast they occur, The issue it's that some guys run twice as many times as others. The last Muroc Meet, line up position was determined by when your registration was received. but it was a one time Special event. IMHO I think more structure than first guy to the line makes a pass is needed.
what do I know? I race a truck.....

[Glen]

SCTA uses  the points system. Points are from the prior meet and listed on their web site before the next meet. They are called to the lines in groups of 25. After all vehicles have run the first round they are recalled for the 2nd round. Easy and it works. 1-25, 26-50 etc. After the meet and points for that meet are posted for the next month. 

[McRat]

If you have a guy cutting line:

Doctor the timeslip dropping him down 5mph each time he runs.  When you see him starting to set his bike on fire in the pits, take away his lighter then tell him what you did and ask him to knock it off.

 

Elmo's system is excellent, and what mostly holds up runs is dust, not normally the racers/workers.  The coolest thing about Elmo system, is you get to work on your car in the pits without worrying about missing a run.  You get in line only when it's your group's turn.

But fast and simple is to get Avery dots and stick them on each pass.  Two colors for 2 day events.  "Fun-Day" Drags and AutoX often do this.