Oxygen Injection

[HotRodV8]

Since I'm so new to LSR, I read some posts and get ideas. If I planned to build a small engine streamliner, could I use a small oxygen tank from an oxygen acetylene welding outfit and spray "pure" welding oxygen into the air intake of my liner? Even if it only lasted for part of the run.
Would it be legal and would it work? Must have been tried before, no?
I looked for this in the SCTA rule book. Found no reference. Do they consider "pure" welding oxygen a fuel?

[Stainless1]

HRV8... practice it with you old lawn mower... 
It would be almost impossible to run rich enough for the motor to live through it....
N2O carries about 12% more oxygen than air... (I remember something like that) and just a little lean will melt you to death.

[McRat]

I wouldn't do it if I were you.  I would be stunned if they permitted it.

Nitrous is used because it's a relatively safe way of doing what you're suggesting. 

Compressed oxygen will explode in the presence of hydrocarbons, like oil, gas, certain gasket materials, etc.  Aluminum ignites with heat, pressure, and high O2 concentrations.  I'm pretty sure a N/A engine will ignite it's pistons with pure O2. 

[HotRodV8]

HRV8... practice it with you old lawn mower... 
It would be almost impossible to run rich enough for the motor to live through it....
N2O carries about 12% more oxygen than air... (I remember something like that) and just a little lean will melt you to death.

Stainless - well that makes this a short thread. Operating a cutting torch teaches me what too much oxygen can do to metal. Thanks for saving me an engine build.
BTW, my whole life I have found it to be almost "impossible to run rich enough."

[McRat]

If I WERE going to try such a thing, I'd use a retail car, hopefully one with a DI gasoline (2009 V6 Camaro) or diesel engine.  This way you don't have to worry about pre-ignition, since the fuel is injected during late compression cycle, not before.

Now concentrated hydrogen peroxide might be a lot of fun ...


I'm kidding folks!  Seriously kidding.

[HotRodV8]

McRat --
I thought if I could regulate the O2 (and i don't know how) I could get significant more power on a small engine.
I was trying to stay away from a turbo and intercooler because of the bulk and cost and just stay with an NA engine.
Thanks for your knowledge.

[Dean Los Angeles]

I had that same thought. I asked an SCTA official and the answer was no.

I tried to argue that it isn't an illegal fuel, because it's an oxidizer.

Nitrous oxide is a special case because there is a specific rule putting it in "fuel" class.

Anyway, no.

PS: All of the info says you can't run oxygen because it will burn the piston in nothing flat. I disagree. Oxygen in any kind of quantity causes the fuel to burn too hot and will indeed burn things up. On the other hand, very small quantities won't, and will add a bunch of horsepower.

[gearheadeh]

Since I'm so new to LSR, I read some posts and get ideas. If I planned to build a small engine streamliner, could I use a small oxygen tank from an oxygen acetylene welding outfit and spray "pure" welding oxygen into the air intake of my liner? Even if it only lasted for part of the run.
Would it be legal and would it work? Must have been tried before, no?
I looked for this in the SCTA rule book. Found no reference. Do they consider "pure" welding oxygen a fuel?

The more things change the more they stay the same ....Or put another way, There is nothing new under the sun!

During a period of great mechanical ingenuity there were several different examples of internal combustion engines modified to run on fuel and pure oxygen. These were used to power torpedo's during WW2.

Here is a Wiki link to one example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_93_torpedo

[HotRodV8]

If I WERE going to try such a thing, I'd use a retail car, hopefully one with a DI gasoline (2009 V6 Camaro) or diesel engine.  This way you don't have to worry about pre-ignition, since the fuel is injected during late compression cycle, not before.

Now concentrated hydrogen peroxide might be a lot of fun ...


I'm kidding folks!  Seriously kidding.

McRat - Let me UN-Seriously Kidding you. As I scratch my head, I seem to remember that back in the 60's they had a hydrogen peroxide kit you could put on your differential and you could ignite it for a limited time on the drag strip or even on the street. The hp increase was big time. Does anyone remember these kits? NO kidding.

[McRat]

...

[McRat]

Since I'm so new to LSR, I read some posts and get ideas. If I planned to build a small engine streamliner, could I use a small oxygen tank from an oxygen acetylene welding outfit and spray "pure" welding oxygen into the air intake of my liner? Even if it only lasted for part of the run.
Would it be legal and would it work? Must have been tried before, no?
I looked for this in the SCTA rule book. Found no reference. Do they consider "pure" welding oxygen a fuel?

The more things change the more they stay the same ....Or put another way, There is nothing new under the sun!

During a period of great mechanical ingenuity there were several different examples of internal combustion engines modified to run on fuel and pure oxygen. These were used to power torpedo's during WW2.

Here is a Wiki link to one example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_93_torpedo

...Quote from article:

...However, compressed oxygen is more dangerous to handle and it required lengthy testing and experimentation for operational use to be possible. Finally, engineers discovered that by starting the engine with compressed air and gradually switching over to pure oxygen, they were able to overcome the uncontrollable explosions that had hampered its development. To conceal the use of oxygen, the oxygen tank was named Secondary Air Tank. It was first deployed in 1935.

[interested bystander]

Reaching back into dim memory, seems like the pioneer Barney Navarro tried it either at the lakes or Bonneville.

Oxygen is an agent that supports the combustion of fuel by definition, so not a fuel.

We breathe oxygen but eat burritos for fuel -you know what the results are.

[bbarn]

I seem to remember someone telling me once that running an engine with a pure O2 mix was a bad idea due to heat collection. The nitrogen in the ambient mix actually collects a fair amount of heat in the combustion chamber and that heat is exhausted with the nitrogen. Along with the myriad of reasons already mentioned...

[HotRodV8]

gearheadeh - -

I read the Wiki link and saw that the Japanese used pure O2 in their torpedo engines. They had some explosions starting it, so they used compressed air to start and then switched to pure compressed O2. These are the same dangers McRat talked about.

So here is the plan, I'll tell Tech that I am only going to use the O2 during the third mile of the return run. Like an all or nothing thing. LOL.

P.S. 10 years ago I rode my motorcycle to Calrary from Florida. A beautiful end to a great trip. Eh.

[gearheadeh]

gearheadeh - -

 

So here is the plan, I'll tell Tech that I am only going to use the O2 during the third mile of the return run. Like an all or nothing thing. LOL.  

P.S. 10 years ago I rode my motorcycle to Calrary from Florida. A beautiful end to a great trip. Eh.

Yes this is a beautiful place we all live in, You just reminded me of a trip I took 28 years ago on my Hercules Rotary powered motorbike. Covered 5000 miles in 10 days travelling time. Calgary to Denver to watch the Mile High Nationals, Then on to what was for me the racing Meca: Los Angeles to watch more racing and go to as many speed shops as I could, Then up to Bakersfield to visit a friend,over to the coast highway for some  cruising. Back thru Spokane to Canada. As I recall the tires were so thin you could almost tell if I had summer or winter air in them when I came to the Canadian Customs. The customs inspector used a common stik in asking if I had done any repairs while in the States such as buy tires? I responded by pointing out how worn they were and avoided the question about if I had made any major purchases. I clean forgot about the Mark Williams Pro 5.14 :1 Ford nine inch rear end gears I had in my back pack.