Author Topic: Mojave mile info is out!  (Read 17824 times)

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McRat

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Re: MKM comments Re: Mojave mile info is out!
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2009, 01:26:09 PM »
...
I have only two areas where the SCTA rules give me pause.  One is tire speed limits.  We would like to use our list of limits rather than the SCTA list.  They're mostly not that dissimilar, but it would mean that (as an example) V rated car tires would be limited to 155.  The other area is brakes and stopping.   Because of the start line and timing locations we have to use, we have about 4000 feet of stopping distance, with about 600 feet of dirt after that.  Cars with the usual (poor) LSR brakes can use chutes.  But is a fast LSR bike with no front brake going to eat dirt before it gets stopped?  You would know better than we would.  But right as of now I'm leaning toward requiring front and rear brakes on all vehicles. ...



Here's what I learned about tires:

I sent in two popular makes of performance tires for dynamic testing (>$800).  One was a V rated Toyo (32" dia), and the other a W rated Kumho (25").

I had run both to a top GPS speed of 181, and many passes at 160+ in a 6,200lb truck (at the time) before the testing.

The lab could only run them to 215mph even though they told me they could run 225mph.  They were told to accelerate them to max speed, hold for 5 miles, coast, then let cool for an hour, then run 3 times.  What they did instead was run them up to 38? miles, and didn't cool them down.  Load was 2200lb.

What I saw on the video was that as the tire heated up at max speed, first one flat area formed.  Then another, then another.  When the flats came around to the start point, the tires failed.  They looked like hexagons.  

The lowly V-rated tire endured 6 passes, then at 215mph and 2200lb, at 38? miles, it "chunked".  A piece of tread flew off, but the tire remained pressurized.
The Y rated tire only survived 3 passes, and at 11 miles it grenaded.  The carcass looks like an big orange peel.  

So while I do trust the V-rated brand at 215mph on the long course, the W rated is questionable for a heavy truck.

What did I learn?

Don't trust a testing lab to do the right test.  You should be present.

A large dia tire will take more speed.

As the heat builds up, the tire deforms more and more until it fails.  Neither tire failed in a relatively short distance.







Offline KeithU

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Re: Mojave mile info is out!
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2009, 02:18:47 PM »
Thanks for all your comments and suggestions so far.  I'm already learning a lot.

I'm curious: do you usually run shorter gears at El Mirage?  I thought maybe you would, what with the shorter course and all.

My apologies, I got the email address slightly wrong.  Leave out the "U". It's Keith@mojavemile.com.

I'm leaving town for the holidays today, but I'll be checking in periodically.

Hope all of you have a happy holiday season.

Keith Uddenberg
MKM Racing
Las Vegas, NV

Offline k.h.

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Re: Mojave mile info is out!
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2009, 03:02:21 PM »
Last night I found some notes on the back of an envelope in the garage from a conversation with Marvin Rifchen some years back about turning new tires on a spindle under infra-red light to "cure" them by running through a few heat cycles.  It makes them "more round" when they grow as they heat, per one note.  Anyway, it was Marvin's suggestion for lessening the likelihood for chunking. 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.  But in practice, there is.--Jan L. A. Van de Snepscheut

Offline Nortonist 592

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Re: Mojave mile info is out!
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2009, 06:28:12 PM »
"Skeptical about sidecars"?   Merry Christmas anyway.
Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.

Offline willieworld

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Re: Mojave mile info is out!
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2009, 06:36:12 PM »
yea me too ---merry christmas bill--i dont think sheri  or i will go to race anyway but we will go and take all of the pics that we can for land racing and the gear grinders web site---willie buchta
willie-dpombatmir-buchta

Offline Nortonist 592

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Re: Mojave mile info is out!
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2009, 06:40:56 PM »
Maybe its just me but when I was reading their website I kept getting images of "Cannonbal Run" in my head.

Merry Christmas Willie and Sheri.  See you at the banquet.
Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.

Offline shiphteey

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Re: Mojave mile info is out!
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2009, 11:49:08 AM »
According to Mapquest this looks like a near 40 hour drive and over 2500 miles each way.   :-o

But thats never stopped me before.   :-D

A couple of things I wanted to address/ask:

1) As far as "fuel" is concerned, can you be a little clearer on what that actually means?  It was stated that they don't want any "fuel" to be used....what does that constitue and what does it not?  I run nitrous oxide and have gone over 200 at Bonneville, TX Mile, Maxton Mile and Loring....to run nitrous oxide I am required to run in the corresponding "fuel" class and not "gas".  If this means nitrous oxide equipped vehicles are not permitted to run, may I ask why?  Its a power adder, just like a turbocharger or supercharger.  I get enough "street racers" begging for me to "take the bottle off"...I feel that at a sanctioned event I shouldn't have to handicap myself yet again.

2) As for slowing down, motorcycles can decelerate quite rapidly, even with no brakes being applied.  Remember, we are inherently "dirtier" in terms of aerodyamics than our 4 wheeled counterparts.  We also have significantly less inertia at 200 mph given we are usually 4 to 7 times lighter.  Here is a demonstration of 202 mph with brakes attached to the vehicle (as required for bikes going over 175 mph or in a class in which the record is over 175) but NO brakes were used:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atd9DGaQTDQ

A.
Gemini Motorcycles
229.6 mph at Loring
201.957 mph 2-way average @ Bonneville;
203.85 @ the Maxton Mile
207.2 @ Maxton -- NAKED
200.2 mph @ TX Mile
195.6 mph on GPS @ the 9/10ths
9.4 @ 157 in the 1/4

Offline willieworld

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Re: Mojave mile info is out!
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2009, 01:28:04 PM »
what a p o s track           shiphteey if you are going to drive that far come on out to el mirage in may---  2 day event ---- its about the same distance and its nice smooth dirt   willie buchta           
« Last Edit: December 26, 2009, 01:43:42 PM by willieworld »
willie-dpombatmir-buchta

Offline John Noonan

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Re: Mojave mile info is out!
« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2009, 10:03:58 PM »
Willie,

That track is much better than the video posted as it is an older video, I went over 200 on my first pass several years ago and also ran again two years ago and it is much better now.  Besides for your bikes it is fine, the #1 bike sidecar was also built by Bob Moreland.

Congrats to MR.Schaeffer for not only winning the bike points championship several times, he also gained entry in to the Maxton 200mph club as well this season  :cheers:


J


Offline LSR Mike

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Re: Mojave mile info is out!
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2010, 09:27:18 AM »
Is it just me or isn't this the same group that runs the Silver State Challenge?

www.silverstateclassic.com
Mike M.
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ECTA Record Holder/Former Bonneville Record Holder

McRat

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Re: Mojave mile info is out!
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2010, 09:29:20 AM »
Pretty sure you are right.  They have other open road races as well, and get good reviews.

Offline KeithU

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Re: Mojave mile info is out!
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2010, 03:02:18 AM »
Is it just me or isn't this the same group that runs the Silver State Challenge?


No. We are not those people.

I can see where there might be confusion.  We put on all the "other" Nevada Open Road racing events, such as the Pony Express, the Gambler's Run, and the Bonneville 100, the latter run out of Wendover, a town with which I know many of you are familiar.

But we do not have anything to do with the Silver State organization, except for occasionally competing in their events.

This year our only Open Road event is the Bonneville 100 on June 26.  See our web site at www.openroadracing.com.

By the way - things have changed a bit (okay, a lot) with regard to running SCTA cars at the Mojave Mile.  Read our new LSR supplemental rules on the web site, www.mojavemile.com.  Basically we are allowing SCTA cars, bikes, and sidecars to run under their own normal tech rules.  Only things we aren't allowing are full streamliners and push starts, as discussed before.  Hope to see you there on March 6.  Grid spots are still available.

Keith Uddenberg
MKM Racing Promotions



Keith Uddenberg
MKM Racing
Las Vegas, NV

Offline LSR Mike

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Re: Mojave mile info is out!
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2010, 04:08:30 PM »
Thanks for clearing that up...just had the same "look and feel" . Good luck with the West Coast Event, I'm much closer to the ECTA's Concrete Mile...
Mike M.
BNI/ECTA
ECTA Record Holder/Former Bonneville Record Holder

Offline bak189

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Re: Mojave mile info is out!
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2010, 06:46:15 PM »
Sorry, you will not see our sidecar running the event ......to close to the M/C Daytona Speed Week.....
maybe next time..........................

PS. Can we use a passenger in the sidecar?????
Question authority.....always

Offline John Noonan

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Re: Mojave mile info is out!
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2010, 10:45:27 PM »
Sorry, you will not see our sidecar running the event ......to close to the M/C Daytona Speed Week.....
maybe next time..........................

PS. Can we use a passenger in the sidecar?????

No, besides if you wont be the "passenger" then don't worry about it.. :wink: