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Author Topic: LTA Rulebook Changes  (Read 7849 times)

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Offline RansomT

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Re: LTA Rulebook Changes
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2009, 08:53:01 AM »
Let me modify, restate my suggestion and then give an example based on real numbers.  I am not in any way trying to take away from safety, nor trying to skirt around the rules.  I was just surprised on much gain some of us saw as compared to Maxton and because of the extremely large/smooth/safe shutdown area that we do have, a little more than a 5 MPH cushion rule should be considered.  I would hate to send a LSR racer home because they got wrapped up in the excitement and missed their target speed by a few MPH.

2 strikes and you are out rule:   If a vehicle exceeds their safety class by more the 5 MPH cushion, but less than 10 MPH, then the run will not be recorded and they will receive their one and only warning.  If the vehicle exceeds the 5 MPH cushion again, then it will not be allow to run again.

Example:  I am currently working on a Kawasaki  EX-500 that I attend to run in M/F 500-4.  I anticipate that the bike will run in the 115-119 mph range at Maxton, well below the 125 MPH rule for a required Steering Damper.   So I take the bike to Loring, about a 1500 mile trip for me.  Weather is great and on the first pass down the track I run a 131.5 MPH.  Under the current rules, I am asked to pack up and go home.  Under the proposed rule change, I am given my only warning, note that my tachometer is off by 500 RPMS at those speeds, adjust accordingly and have a ball the rest of the event.   As a side note:  And before it is suggested; there are several in-depth discussions about installing a Steering Damper on a EX-500 on-line, if you read those you will find the experienced roadracers say that it makes the bike more unstable and it is not safe.

And like you Bob, I too get miffed when folks just blatantly disregard the rules, ESPECIALLY rules about safety.   

Offline White Monster

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Re: LTA Rulebook Changes
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2009, 09:15:41 AM »
Firstly, let me modify, restate my comments and then give an example based on real life experiences.

Secondly, I understand everything you are saying and what you are asking, really, I do.  But having said that, the possibility of being "sent home" is the only leverage a sanctioning organisation has, to motivate participants to comply with all the Rules.  We hope that racers and crews put their personal safety above having fun, but that does not always occur.  It is unfortunate, but it is what it is.

Officials hate sending an LSR racer home in a box, because they got wrapped up in the excitement,  exceeded the speed their vehicle was rated for and had an accident.  Unfortunately, this does happen in the imperfect world we live in and we are charged with keeping everyone safe, in spite of themselves.

Lastly, I am not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to let you understand the issue from our perspective.
Be safe, go fast, have FUN !

Offline RansomT

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Re: LTA Rulebook Changes
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2009, 09:32:40 AM »
Firstly, let me modify, restate my comments and then give an example based on real life experiences.

Secondly, I understand everything you are saying and what you are asking, really, I do.  But having said that, the possibility of being "sent home" is the only leverage a sanctioning organisation has, to motivate participants to comply with all the Rules.  We hope that racers and crews put their personal safety above having fun, but that does not always occur.  It is unfortunate, but it is what it is.

Officials hate sending an LSR racer home in a box, because they got wrapped up in the excitement,  exceeded the speed their vehicle was rated for and had an accident.  Unfortunately, this does happen in the imperfect world we live in and we are charged with keeping everyone safe, in spite of themselves.

Lastly, I am not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to let you understand the issue from our perspective.

and this is why I posted this in a public place, for debate.  So we (I) can understand both sides.  I don’t take any comments personal, heck I was the one that brought this up and I knew I needed to put my big boy pants on when I did.   8-)

Offline White Monster

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Re: LTA Rulebook Changes
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2009, 09:59:45 AM »
and this is why I posted this in a public place, for debate.  So we (I) can understand both sides.  I don’t take any comments personal, heck I was the one that brought this up and I knew I needed to put my big boy pants on when I did.

Hey, it is a reasonable question and it has been asked before.  Very worthwhile for discussion.

I by no means am trying to say my view is the "end-all" of the discussion, especially where the LTA is concerned, it is just my measly two-cents worth.

Also worth a mention, aside from our personal morals, values and ethics (we have to sleep at night too),
I am also fully aware of what the insurance companies would do, if they found out the rules had been changed to allow participants to exceed speeds that were established for the racer's safety and well being.
Be safe, go fast, have FUN !

Offline RansomT

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Re: LTA Rulebook Changes
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2009, 10:03:32 AM »

Also worth a mention, aside from our personal morals, values and ethics (we have to sleep at night too),
I am also fully aware of what the insurance companies would do, if they found out the rules had been changed to allow participants to exceed speeds that were established for the racer's safety and well being.

Now that is the reason I thought it was in the rule book the way it is ... and if the insurance copy says it needs to stay the way it is, it needs to stay the way it is!

Offline relaxedfit

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Re: LTA Rulebook Changes
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2009, 11:59:10 AM »
Veering off topic, could someone steer me to the damper safety thread?
Ken Presson
Having nothing to do in shutdown is our goal

Offline RansomT

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Re: LTA Rulebook Changes
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2009, 12:28:29 PM »
For the Ninja 500 (EX-500) ??

http://www.ex-500.com/index.php/topic,1240.0.html

http://www.ex-500.com/index.php/topic,7049.0.html

http://www.ex-500.com/index.php/topic,5278.0.html

There was another on a road race dedicated board that I can't find right now ... is was linked from ex-500.com, it was really harsh.

Offline MiltonP

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Re: LTA Rulebook Changes
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2009, 04:21:32 PM »
I am out of town so haven't been reading infor a few days.  I, like several others, was not expecting to run 12 mph faster at Loring.  I was running 'new to me gearing' and wasn't sure what I was going to pull off. It would have been a real bummer if that had been saturday am and if I had not been tech'd for it.  That said, there shouldn't be any surprises next time around so I can live with the 4.999 rule.  I do think some thought should be given to punishment of a slight goof versus an intentional flat out and whatever run and I like to think that would be the case if it happened.

By the way, we just have to find Ransom that Old Bike Barn steering damper that worked out real well for my ex500 before we head to Maine if not earlier.  There is a Daytona brand that may also fit but it was almost twice as much if I recall.  Everyone have a happy holiday.  Oh, and Jon, thanks for the great write-up on the front page on Gene.  Happy holidays and see you soon.   :cheers:

Offline 2K10 SS

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Re: LTA Rulebook Changes
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2010, 06:44:22 PM »
   Bob,
     You said the LTA rulebook will almost duplicate the ECTA rulebook.  My suggestion would be to clarify the issue with the unibody car support pads for rollbar mounting points.  The ECTA book says to sandwich 1/4" plates to the floor at the mounting points.  The problem I have is my 72 firebird project rollbar mounting points would be better on the rocker sill plate.  This wouldn"t let me sandwich the plates 100%. I even checked with a chassis shop, Delaware Chassis Works, for their suggestions.  He agreed with me that this rule is very vague.  His suggestion was to spotweld 1/4" plate to top of sill only.  Do you agree?
  Also the ECTA site has clarified the head & neck restraint rule.  All cars, old & new, require it in 2011.  Will this rule be in the LTA rulebook as they posted it?
  Since I am in the process of building this car, any early information about LTA rules will be appreciated.  Looking forward to 2K10 Loring.
NEED FOR SPEED (164.9mph as of Loring 2010)
                        (186.9mph as of Loring July 2011)

Offline tedgram

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Re: LTA Rulebook Changes
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2010, 07:13:15 PM »
  Bob,
     You said the LTA rulebook will almost duplicate the ECTA rulebook.  My suggestion would be to clarify the issue with the unibody car support pads for rollbar mounting points.  The ECTA book says to sandwich 1/4" plates to the floor at the mounting points.  The problem I have is my 72 firebird project rollbar mounting points would be better on the rocker sill plate.  This wouldn"t let me sandwich the plates 100%. I even checked with a chassis shop, Delaware Chassis Works, for their suggestions.  He agreed with me that this rule is very vague.  His suggestion was to spotweld 1/4" plate to top of sill only.  Do you agree?
  Also the ECTA site has clarified the head & neck restraint rule.  All cars, old & new, require it in 2011.  Will this rule be in the LTA rulebook as they posted it?
  Since I am in the process of building this car, any early information about LTA rules will be appreciated.  Looking forward to 2K10 Loring.

I would like a ruling on this also. The rule book says 1/8 inch plates if welded. Have had no feedback on removable door bars, I have asked about this before..
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 07:17:18 PM by tedgram »

Offline Cajun Kid

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Re: LTA Rulebook Changes
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2010, 10:39:47 PM »
Ted,,, you may not get a "firm" answer on door bars.  Each application is differant,, there is no "stock" answer on door bars,,,

As in cage material,,, it is easy,, as it is spelled out,, example,,   1 5/8  .120 wall  or 1 3/4 .120 nominal wall  etc.

Cage design, mounting points, door bars, funny car cages, removable door bars, flat plate gussets vs tubular gussets,, etc,,, each application has variations.

Good luck,, keep us posted.

Charles
ECTA Record Holder Maxton
E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
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