Aero Software

[jl222]

  Rob... is that a 4 link I see what spring rate do you have, could be to stiff and looks like instant center is way out there.

  More weight or more wing might help. Whats fast freddy doing that your not?

 I'm suprised that more people don't use MSD's programable ingnition feature that lets you limit how fast the engine revs, this feature enabled 10.5 wide drag tire racers to go over 200 and faster.

             Good luck JL222

[robfrey]

jl222,
You are very observant. The suspension is for running at Maxton but it may help a little on the salt. The instant center is way out there as we are not looking to shock the tire to the salt. We have 1200lb springs in the back and 550 in the front. They seem about right and the car sits about 1" into it's 2.5 inches of travel.  Car weighs a little over 4300 with 66% on rear tires.
We are not running the programmable digital 7 but the nonprogrammable.
We are running the MSD Boost (launch) controller and I'm starting to regret that decision. Should have splurged for the AMS 1000.

What's FAST FREDDIE doing that we are not? Years of practice and a well sorted combo. That's a winner almost every time.

[jl222]

jl222,
You are very observant. The suspension is for running at Maxton but it may help a little on the salt. The instant center is way out there as we are not looking to shock the tire to the salt. We have 1200lb springs in the back and 550 in the front. They seem about right and the car sits about 1" into it's 2.5 inches of travel.  Car weighs a little over 4300 with 66% on rear tires.
We are not running the programmable digital 7 but the nonprogrammable.
We are running the MSD Boost (launch) controller and I'm starting to regret that decision. Should have splurged for the AMS 1000.

What's FAST FREDDIE doing that we are not? Years of practice and a well sorted combo. That's a winner almost every time.

  Rob we run 13 in shocks but only 112 lb springs the chassis came with 88s and Pro Chassis didn't like us going that high but with the big intercooler tank and added lead we needed to. At 1200lbs your suspension would need 2400 lbs to move one inch depending on your motion ratio being 1 to 1.
  Looks like Freddys engine sets back a little further but he only runs a three speed Owens two units.

             JL222

[Rex Schimmer]

Robfrey,
I agree with Troy (jr222) you are pretty stiff on the rear end. Solid axle rear ends really don't like stiff springs for the best "mechanical"grip. But considering you have a wing you may need to have stiff springs to keep it off the ground if your wing is working. Have you tried to see how much the rear shocks travel during a run?, (tie warps around the shock shafts will give you a pretty good measurement) wth this knowledge you could certainly get a rough estimate of your wings effectiveness. I assume that you are looking at the CFD for any additions to your present body, just a word of advice, if you plan to put a tail on your car, you need to make sure that it is long enough and the angle that it tapers is low enough that the air stays attached. You may also find out that having the rear tires close to the body will have a pretty negative affect aerowise. Does it have a flat bottom?

Neat car and much like Fast Freddies. Freddie went fast because of what he had in the tank, the amount of blower OD and the down force of his wing and as you have said the correct combination of all of these. His aero package is not to aero but I would bet his horse power in Seth's car would make the worlds first open wheel 400 mph car.

Keep us posted! Beautiful car.

Rex

[dieselgeek]

Robfrey, looks like you never made a full pass.  What happened, looked like you were making progress on your times and the next day they went south.

We had boost controller problems and ended up using a regulator set at 23 psi of boost which is where we spent time tuning around.
Driver had to pedal a lot (never got past 70% throttle on his 284 pass) and with all that pedaling he got into a place on the ve table that we didn't tune for yet. This triggered an egt alarm and the driver aborted. We then fixed the problem but the driver got called back to Denmark on a business emergency (Saturday night).
To make the best of a bad situation, I ran my first three licensing runs on Sunday morning.

Nice car!

As a fellow EFI tuner, I feel your pain on the VE table issues.   I started tuning on loadbearing dynos where I worked every possible area of the VE table that I could get into.  Once that was worked out, our driver was able to modulate the power much better.  TPS-based boost control seems to be pretty helpful out there on the salt as well.

Got any fun youtubes to watch??   

-Scott

[jl222]

Robfrey,
I agree with Troy (jr222) you are pretty stiff on the rear end. Solid axle rear ends really don't like stiff springs for the best "mechanical"grip. But considering you have a wing you may need to have stiff springs to keep it off the ground if your wing is working. Have you tried to see how much the rear shocks travel during a run?, (tie warps around the shock shafts will give you a pretty good measurement) wth this knowledge you could certainly get a rough estimate of your wings effectiveness. I assume that you are looking at the CFD for any additions to your present body, just a word of advice, if you plan to put a tail on your car, you need to make sure that it is long enough and the angle that it tapers is low enough that the air stays attached. You may also find out that having the rear tires close to the body will have a pretty negative affect aerowise. Does it have a flat bottom?

Neat car and much like Fast Freddies. Freddie went fast because of what he had in the tank, the amount of blower OD and the down force of his wing and as you have said the correct combination of all of these. His aero package is not to aero but I would bet his horse power in Seth's car would make the worlds first open wheel 400 mph car.

Keep us posted! Beautiful car.

Rex

  Hey Rex...Troy is ''Bvillercr''

      JL222

[robfrey]

Rex,
We need the 1200 springs just to hold up the back of the car and we had to crank the preload to get back to ride height. i like the idea of the travel indicators except we really didn't go fast enough to see where it's really going to settle in. I think we had too much angle in the rear wing and it may have been stalling out or in very inefficient angle of attack.

Scott, tell me about that tps boost controller.
You tube vids
http://www.youtube.com/user/OutlawStreetTuners#p/a
http://www.youtube.com/user/OutlawStreetTuners#p/u/7/VAzXgHH_2m0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3IuTIDnaV0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVKt1rebIi8&feature=related

Jl222.
tell me about your car!

[jl222]

 

  Rob ...you can read -see and look at videos of our 222 camaro at the build diaries [getting ready for Bonneville rebuild], about 8 spaces down today.
  Its a 88 camaro with an alston pro-stock chassis and KB hemi with pro-charger supercharger that was built to go 300mph.In one of the Videos pg 55 you can see a run at speedweek, 268 at the 21/4 285 at 1st timed mile and hood blowing up from blower tube connector comming apart 2-2 1/2 sec from start of 2nd mile.

                             JL222

[1212FBGS]

rob
ill build the body for ya..... i got plenty of glue sniffing employees lookin for somethin to do....
kent

[maguromic]

rob
ill build the body for ya..... i got plenty of glue sniffing employees lookin for somethin to do....
kent

Get your glue sniffing employees to work on my parts. I will be down at the end of the month or soon after that.    Tony

[wobblywalrus]

Dean, thanks for posting that software list on the first page of this thread.  It has a few things that I am looking for.

[joea]

Rex.."tie warps around the shock shafts will give you a pretty good measurement"

did the tie wraps tell you how much it moved on the course, or coming
off the course.......?

did it tell you how much movement at 150 differs from 250 meaning, were
you continuing to get lift...or down force......?...

meaning it might have moved the most in first two miles and gained lift
toward peak vel...

[robfrey]

 

  Rob ...you can read -see and look at videos of our 222 camaro at the build diaries [getting ready for Bonneville rebuild], about 8 spaces down today.
  Its a 88 camaro with an alston pro-stock chassis and KB hemi with pro-charger supercharger that was built to go 300mph.In one of the Videos pg 55 you can see a run at speedweek, 268 at the 21/4 285 at 1st timed mile and hood blowing up from blower tube connector comming apart 2-2 1/2 sec from start of 2nd mile.

                             JL222

WOW! Were you guys at World Finals?

[dieselgeek]

Scott, tell me about that tps boost controller.

Nice videos - I love your ballast methodology, you and me would get along famously!!! 

TPS-based boost control is something that a handful of EMS's out there can do.   For turbo applications where you'd like some reasonable throttle control under boost, it makes the car easier to drive...  (case in point, this past speedweek, I turned DOWN our power by about 75hp, and we picked up 20+mph as a result).  I know AEM, Motec, Megasquirt can do his.  I am not sure about standalone boost controllers but I bet there's at least a few of them out there that can do it too.

How I usually set it up is, using the upper 30-40% of throttle travel to control the wastegate (electronically) for whatever range of manifold pressure gives me the desired power.  We end up with a linear throttle feel, like a blower motor.


What type of dyno is that in your shop?  Superflow?

-Scott

[robfrey]

OST has a Mustang with an eddy current brake but its only 600hp brake. We found this dyno to give us very close numbers to the superflow chassis dyno.