Finding a course...

[Blue]

Read some interesting things on BSSC and AI5's sites recently, anyone with interest in the ALSR probably has too.  Among them, that DV is too soft "in places" for a high speed ALSR.  When we surveyed this site in two different years, we found soft spots too, although these were dealt with by wheel packing, much like the Black Rock City Department of Public Works (Burning Man) makes "roads" at BRD.  Andy Green is quite correct that the surface varies over its length, and the same can be said of almost any playa of more than 10 miles.  Our larger concern was the rise and fall of the course line that this would cause leading to some of the "ski jumping" that Andy experienced with TSSC in Jordan. 

One solution is to use less course.  Higher thrust to weight and higher thrust to drag ratios lead to shorter acceleration runs, shorter decel, and more runoff room on a given playa.  This also leads to less variation in the playa surface over the shorter run distance.  Another solution would be to have a lighter car.  This would require a radical departure for all of the established teams.  As we all have found in our racing careers, adding lightness is about as easy as removing drag.  Do both, and many more venues open up as well as shorter areas of the known ones...

[maj]

Why does it have to be a lake ??
Surely there are flat areas other than lakes that could be groomed or even have a permanant course constructed ??

[1212FBGS]

whats "DV"
kent

[ginge]

daimond valley?

[Blue]

Why does it have to be a lake ??
Surely there are flat areas other than lakes that could be groomed or even have a permanant course constructed ??

Actually, there are no flat areas of the world longer than a couple of miles that aren't dry lake beds of either salt or alkyli playa.  Water is a great leveler and compactor, so a lakebed that dries out will be very flat over miles and miles of surface.  While there are many 10+ mile stretches of perfectly straight road (especially here in Nevada), the berms and runoff areas on the sides would be fatal at any significant speed.  So we stick to lakebeds.

[sockjohn]

One solution is to use less course.  Higher thrust to weight and higher thrust to drag ratios lead to shorter acceleration runs, shorter decel, and more runoff room on a given playa.  This also leads to less variation in the playa surface over the shorter run distance.  Another solution would be to have a lighter car.  This would require a radical departure for all of the established teams.  As we all have found in our racing careers, adding lightness is about as easy as removing drag.  Do both, and many more venues open up as well as shorter areas of the known ones...

Interesting.

Just out of curiosity has anyone gone from long course back to short course to set a record?

One would think that there may be a speed/vehicle weight/vehicle power that it makes sense.  Shorter run would be less stress on a highly stressed motor.

My understanding is that one could run the short course despite having met the speed to be allowed to run the long, am I correct in this?

[Glen]

SJ, lots of long course qualified vehicles run on both courrse. However both runs have to be done on the same course for a record.

[SPARKY]

for wheel driven cars it is all about the coe of friction which lead to tractive effort---

[healewis]

Read some interesting things on BSSC and AI5's sites recently, anyone with interest in the ALSR probably has too.  Among them, that DV is too soft "in places" for a high speed ALSR.  When we surveyed this site in two different years, we found soft spots too, although these were dealt with by wheel packing, much like the Black Rock City Department of Public Works (Burning Man) makes "roads" at BRD.  Andy Green is quite correct that the surface varies over its length, and the same can be said of almost any playa of more than 10 miles.  Our larger concern was the rise and fall of the course line that this would cause leading to some of the "ski jumping" that Andy experienced with TSSC in Jordan. 

One solution is to use less course.  Higher thrust to weight and higher thrust to drag ratios lead to shorter acceleration runs, shorter decel, and more runoff room on a given playa.  This also leads to less variation in the playa surface over the shorter run distance.  Another solution would be to have a lighter car.  This would require a radical departure for all of the established teams.  As we all have found in our racing careers, adding lightness is about as easy as removing drag.  Do both, and many more venues open up as well as shorter areas of the known ones...

Hi Blue, Your solution re: thrust to weight ratios could be something that we need to look into for future challenges. I understand from various sources that these vehicles are heavy to reduce the "G" forces BHSSC & AI5R are looking at  a +/-3 "G" to minimize the effect on the driver. Having said that, I have also heard that a top fuel dragster can pull up to 11"G" although for shorter periods of time. A very interesting subject and one that was going to be explored by the BBC UK in a documentary called Human which was to look into the effects that these forces had. We where approached by the BBC as I would think were BHSSC and AI5R? I sent them over to NEA as they are the only team, I know of, that are running at present. I don't know if they where ever contacted?   

[F104A]

The producers of the show "Human" contacted us to see if we would work with them on measuring the
stresses on the human body in actual conditions. We agreed to work with them then we never heard from
them again. (?)

[healewis]

The producers of the show "Human" contacted us to see if we would work with them on measuring the
stresses on the human body in actual conditions. We agreed to work with them then we never heard from
them again. (?)

Hi Ed, excuse my ignorance but when you say we, who would we be? is it NEA? Do you have a contact name for the show? I could send it to you if you wish.

Cheers

Paul

[F104A]

I always refer to the North American Eagle team as we. I guess it is because, without them, I would still have
a big piece of aluminum and going nowhere fast. I've since, lost the contact with the folks that spoke to us.
If you have a contact, I could touch base with them and see if they have any interest at this point in time....Ed

[healewis]

Hi ED,
 I've PM'd the details to you 

Paul

[Blue]

300 workers x 200 days to clear the surface rocks;  that's a big job.

And that's only a 100m wide lane.  Too many rocks.  Time to look at other venues besides Hakskeen or design a car for a shorter course.

[normh]

Read some interesting things on BSSC and AI5's sites recently, anyone with interest in the ALSR probably has too.  Among them, that DV is too soft "in places" for a high speed ALSR.  When we surveyed this site in two different years, we found soft spots too, although these were dealt with by wheel packing, much like the Black Rock City Department of Public Works (Burning Man) makes "roads" at BRD.  Andy Green is quite correct that the surface varies over its length, and the same can be said of almost any playa of more than 10 miles.  Our larger concern was the rise and fall of the course line that this would cause leading to some of the "ski jumping" that Andy experienced with TSSC in Jordan. 

One solution is to use less course.  Higher thrust to weight and higher thrust to drag ratios lead to shorter acceleration runs, shorter decel, and more runoff room on a given playa.  This also leads to less variation in the playa surface over the shorter run distance.  Another solution would be to have a lighter car.  This would require a radical departure for all of the established teams.  As we all have found in our racing careers, adding lightness is about as easy as removing drag.  Do both, and many more venues open up as well as shorter areas of the known ones...

it looks like the bullet project took a leaf out of your book blue, they ave reduced their car in size and claim they can run on a nine mile course! I don't know if that's at all possible but thats what they are claiming It is to be 30 feet long and weighing 3 tonnes. mmmmmmmmmmmmm

Norm