Skip’s “Thing” – Blown Fuel Roadster

[interested bystander]

Hot Water stagnation!

Another good catch phrase!

[Drewfus]

looking great, any more progress with the cooling bits?

Cheers,

Drewfus

[38flattie]

Hi Skip! The build is coming along nicely!

Very cool stuff here- good luck!

[gotzy]

looking great, any more progress with the cooling bits?

Yeah, and I want to see how the beer bottle over flow bottle is intergrated...

[Skip Pipes]

Tman - The message was to stop drilling holes into the frame to mount stuff as (it lets moisture and salt in). Instead mount items with tabs/brackets.

Drewfus – some pics of the recirculation pump and spray bar. The idea is to move the water around in the tank so it doesn’t stagnate. I’m also spraying water on the upper portion of the radiator to aid cooling. The pump is a 12 volt 360 GPH bilge pump. Its easily serviceable/replaceable.

For the intercooler tank I’ll use a much larger 2000 GPH pump from the same mfg.
   
38flattie – thanks, and your car looks outstanding.

gotzy – might just have to put a cup holder somewhere in the banger.

Skip Pipes

[gotzy]

AND....
I see ball bearings on that spindle.
Looks like someone knows a thing or two.

Obviously something here for those in the know, could someone elaborate on this one please?

Whilst on the subject Skip, What year Chevy hubs are they?  They appear to have been redrilled for 6 studs, how necessary is the 6 studs as won't that just make getting suitable rims more difficult?

So is this right, early Ford spindles, with Chevy hubs and bearings but the bearings modified to fit the Ford spindles?  What mods did the bearings need?  Sorry for all the questions

[Skip Pipes]

Hi gotzy
I believe ball bearings offer less rolling resistance for this application. And I think the hubs are late 40’s to early 50’s and they are made from really nice material (as discovered when I had them trued up).
 
Early Chevy’s hubs came drilled for 6 lug’s and rims are easily sourced new from many suppliers. I did have to bore the hubs to fit the studs. And you’ll need to pay attention to the length of the knurl on the stud so it matches the hub flange.
 
As for the bearings, any good (relative term) industrial bearing house can take the measurements and supply bearings and seals. No machining necessary on the spindles or hubs.

The real trick is to get the wheels made for an acceptable scrub radius.

[gotzy]

Thanks for you comments Skip.

Is it generally considered that ball bearings are more efficient and suitable for LSR than say modern cylindrical roller bearings?  I suppose it's less surface area and therefore less friction and overall better efficiency or something along those lines?  As I've yet to learn much about bearings, was it difficult to get bearings that will cope with the expected load as I'm assuming that the car will be capable of running some very stout numbers (200-250?) and be carrying the weight (4000lbs +) to do it?

I'd be interested in your view of what acceptable is with relation to scrub radius?   If your running a straight up axle and say a 5" rim (tyre height?), will you be able to get enough rim offset to run 0 scrub radius with your spindle and hub combination, or will you end up with some positive?   Also, if you can get the rim offset desired, will the hub protrusion still fit under a moon disc or will it cause an unwanted aero problem?  Any chance of some more pics of the rear of the hub and it relationship to the spindle when mounted?  

Thanks

Steve

[Skip Pipes]

Hi Steve,

Oh I’m sure someone will take exception to the assumption of efficiency for ball bearings and discount their benefits. Nonetheless, it’s what makes this interesting and fun for me.  As far as loading goes, it’s also influenced by bearing quality (and I bought high quality bearings).
 
I’ve just reduced my target speeds down to F/BGR, so I’m confident the bearings will cope.

You raise good questions about the scrub radius. I’m shooting for less than 1” positive scrub and it’s my next project after I sell off some spare bits. I haven’t mocked up the axle/spindle/hub relationship yet so I don’t know where the wheels will fall or the compromises I’ll have to make. The devil is in the details. I’ll get on it as soon as I finish the cooling/intercooler tanks.

I’ll send hub/spindle pics when I get it mocked up in situ.
 
Skip Pipes

[gotzy]

Well from what I've been reading recently Skip you don't seem to alone, ceramic bearings that the well funded teams use also seem to be very nice.

So does the F engine class indicate a change of engine family already as you were setting up for SBC & BBC weren't you?

Yeah sorry about so many questions, still learning.  Have you decided on a front tyre size yet?  I've been trying to research the scrub radius and camber relationship and have seen all the comments that the closer to 0 the setup gets the more stable the car is but what I haven't seen is where the relationship on the camber comes in.  Do your spindles have any built in camber and would running a degree or 2 of KPI get you close to 0 scrub radius? 

Thanks, some pics when you get round to it would be cool.

Regards

Steve

[SPARKY]

when you have a good bit of camber and postive scrub radius you torque the frame which changes the loading on the rear tires
---small camber zero scrub radius= no rear tire loading change when you turn the tires

[Skip Pipes]

Yes the ceramic bearings are a very nice upgrade. I have trouble sometimes remembering I’m going Indy Car racing on a go-cart budget, so the standard ball bearings keep me within a reasonable budget.

The same applies to the new engine combination. I did set the car up for both SBC and BBC. However I’m changing engine strategies for a less expensive (slower) combo and run a boosted Toyota 3 liter 2JZGTE.
 
I haven’t set the tire, spindle, scrub yet as I need to sell my 8-71 blower to finance that part of the project.  Nonetheless, I’m a running Ford spindle, straight up, without camber. So any scrub radius adjustments will have to come from hub, wheel and tire diameter adjustments. To your point of adding KPI, I did look into 10-degree sprint car spindles to help the scrub. However, from my dirt track oval racing experience I know extreme caster, camber and KPI have a chassis jacking effect.  So I’m sticking with the “less” KPI Ford spindle.

Will shoot pics when I get going.

Skip Pipes

[Rob]

G'day Skip,

You may well be surprised at what you can wring out of the 2JZ and there are a ton of after market go fast goodies available for them.

I'm off to read the rest of your build now.

Cheers,
Rob

EDIT: Great build and I'll be riding along. Do you have a pic of your seat mounts without the seat in situ. I need to mount a similar Kirkey in the near future.

[gotzy]

Thanks for that Sparky!  So can Camber and KPI effectively be totaled and run as one figure due to the effects being the same but separate it when establishing the scrub radius in case there's camber built into the spindle?
 
I definitely understand that Skip, keeping the budget real can be very difficult on any car let along one for LSR.  Finding cost effective ways of doing stuff is a lot of fun though and that's why I definitely understand the 2JZ as that's the motor we've settled on for our F/BGMR - BFMR project, awesome little motors as Rob says!  I'm not buying into the "slower" tag though....
 
Yeah I saw your parts for sale on the HAMB , good luck in the sale as I want to see this one progress.  Thanks for additional front end comments, have found them very useful, so what would be your ideal caster considering being straight up and probably a pretty good scrub radius, 10-15 degrees?

[Dr Goggles]

I'm p**** that we didn't come across the "radiator in a tank" idea earlier because I went to a huge effort to make our water tank with baffles which make the water take a circuit within it to prevent convection....A pressurized cooling system is much better and the water tank is then much simpler to build and can be built with a panel to add ice....

der

That's what's good about this place.