If you could choose!!

[Jonny Hotnuts]

Another thing to consider is how much available knowledge is out there to build HP in the engine of choice. Some engines have been tweeked for years and the secrets of building HP is no more a black art but rather click away and a PM or two.

There is a reason there are so many busa and gxsr motors being used...tons of parts, nearly bullet proof and relatively inexpensive.....not to mention that if you want to build a high HP motor you can do it without experimentation as many other platforms. And setting a record with these engines is not as easy as it might seem....I know on my engines very little is OEM....nearly everything on the motor has been tweeked, changed, polished, lightened or other. These bikes set records early on but every year they get pushed higher (isnt that right FV!).

-BUT-

If you wanted to do something out of the box.....
I say a Ducati.....and the 999 could be made to make good HP, true it wont make GSXR 1K power but would be very unique and would kick the crap out of a HD of like displacement.

Here is a 150 HP (stock) 999 motor:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DUCATI-2004-999-MOTION-COMPLETE-MOTOR-ENGINE-998-749_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem5882e21d0cQQitemZ380152978700QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories


GOod luck

~JH

[Dakzila]

I have to say if I were going to buy a bike for LSR I'd have to take a serious look at the new BMW 1000 RR. 998cc, 193 hP, a little over 400 lbs (403 dry) and traction control..all for 13K....
If the bike is what they say it is...... it might be fun to put on on the dirt...

[oz]

Wow,Thanks Guys.
I aint given up on the CBR as yet we do have plans for that Motor. Fuel injection or different carbs, Higher comp ratio, older head as the older ones made slightly more power slightly different layout apparently, and we will see what we can eak out of it.
We are using the Chassis again regardless as it was so stable and well behaved,I also made it with enough room to accept nearly any of the older style of engine barring air cooled I dont think you would get an EFE Motor in there.

Why not do the tweaks on the new engine, and go 200? What makes you think you'll go 170?

I was working on the premiss that most Engines are Dyno tested and speed tested nearer to sea level and with Altitude at Bonneville you are going to lose around 20+% and I really cant bring myself to use a newer engine,200MPH would be great but I am determined to do something in the 1000cc class first,Normally aspirated then Fuel again.


Another thing to consider is how much available knowledge is out there to build HP in the engine of choice. Some engines have been tweeked for years and the secrets of building HP is no more a black art but rather click away and a PM or two.

This is  my problem as far as I know  ther has not been any or much work done with  this Engine and it is all just trial and error,The bottom end is real strong all Cryo’d and sorted but the top end seems to be a bit lacking,I will percivere with it and see what happens.
Thanks jonny

And then you get into the literature.  Stroker kits - no problem - I can site chapter and verse on the do's and dont's of increasing a 1275 to 1450 cc's.  Destroking?  You'd think was asking to borrow a family menorah from a Rabbi during Hanuka to illuminate my garage.
Ha Ha Brilliant.I know exactly what you mean, The usuall reponse I get is Hmmm a CBR 1000f why don’t you use a Gixxer or why do you want to destroke a Busa I think the old Harley T Shirts with “If I had to explain you would’nt understand” adage rings true on that one!!
And as for pistons and the like I had to have a set of forged ones made at J.E. a top job but people kept asking “are you taking spares” the answer being not at 600 quid a set. I have spent every day since I got back on Ebay and put bids on two Weslake engines three Jawas and no joy as yet,One of these Engines is for my wife Beck she has been struck with the disease SALT FEVER and wants to run in the 500cc class “Good Girl” dam looks like the holidays for the next 20 years are all going to be at Bonneville.
Cheers Chris

Hey Stratman what a good Idea, Hmmm Let me think for a minute
No my spanners don’t fit!
I did think about a Harley but I am going to wait until I am in my mid fiftys to go the Harley route, Nothing against them just don’t see me riding one until I am older.

Nice one Nortonist
I didn’t realize that you could run them on gas is heat a problem when run on normal gas as the finning is kinda minimal to say the least, I did try to find a Godden but hens teeth and rocking horse poo are about as common and to have one made means I will have to sell both my kidneys/ lungs/ Eyes etc which means the life support machine that I travel around in might cause a bit of drag.
Seriously though I did Email Godden and I never even got a reply which is a shame as it would have made a cracking LSR Bike and wow what a beautiful looking motor.
Alf Hagon did the first 200 ¼ in this country on one of those beautys.

Thanks Joea
Words of wisdom from a Master I will keep at it and don’t worry no sick bag required it will not be a gixxer or busa engine, I aint getting dis heartend but this trip cost me dearly and it is going to take two and a half years to pay it off so if there had been an engine out there that had an easier history of tuning I was thinking it may have been a better option.
I have actually purchased a 1980something Zx10 to run in parallel with the CBR and give a tweak and if we don’t get the desired results with the CBR it may be an engine swap.So I may be needing a few tips if that’s ok.
Thanks Guys great help as always, That’s what I like about this sport brilliant.

[joea]

......unless your going to focus on fuel class ie nitrous and or
run blown class........your pretty much beating a dead horse.....

purely naturally aspirated on gas.......has a pretty well defined
finite end......

fuel, blown, streamlined gives YOU the opportunity to push the
envelope..........on ANYTHING.........

no worries........if you  want it bad enough.......youll get after it
......and load up with some other blokes.........and split the
costs making it very doable......very soon........

[Jonny Hotnuts]

I was working on the premiss that most Engines are Dyno tested and speed tested nearer to sea level and with Altitude at Bonneville you are going to lose around 20+%

It is true that you will loose 15-20% of the motor.....

-BUT-

There is an almost 1:1 gain/ loss ratio in "less drag VS loss in HP" at Bonneville because while the less density will make you loose HP it is easier to push the vehicle through the lighter air. 

This again is a reason that artificially aspirated engines with the ability to increase air density through compression and intercooling while still maintaining "pushing the vehicle through lighter air" have a much higher speed potential than an NA motor of like or even larger displacement.

[guttley782]

Hi Oz,
what about a snowmobile engine?

[sockjohn]

Not sure why we don't see more Suzuki GS1100 and Kawasaki KZ 900/1000 engines in LSR bikes. Both of these engines will make plenty of HP and there are tons of high performance parts available.  There's also a lot of builders who have the experience and ability to build a great head for these engines as well as beautiful after market heads available.

I've wondered this myself, many of those bikes are pretty inexpensive as well.  I'm a bit fond of the KZ's as that is what my dad rode when I was a kid.

I thought there was a streamliner than ran a Hayabusa motor destroked to 1000 cc's several years back.  If correct, they may be able to offer some insight or maybe even sell you some parts.

I don't think I would bother ($$$) to destroke a Hayabusa unless I was going blown, there are to many good liter bike motors out there.

[754]

Arrow racing from Windsor Ont Canada runs a debored 500cc CBR (I think) in a streamliner at 200 plus..(William Team I think)

 They may be able to help you out with advice or parts availabilty..

 Anything is possible at the salt flats, look at what E Z Hook has done with 1200 or 1300 ccs..

 good luck , I am pinning my hopes & encouragement on the underdogs... I ride a Sohc 4 Honda & still love it..

[wobblywalrus]

Oz, as best as I know, there is a new Norton piston engine driven bike on the way.  Me thinks it will be built somewhere near where you live.  New bikes can have all sorts of bizarre problems and you will have the opportunity to be one of the first to figure things out.  There is a lot of satisfaction in doing this.

[wobblywalrus]

This is more on the new Norton.  I was too tired to post it last night.

Tuesday, after my runs at BUB, I was walking around the pits and talking to friends and people I had not met before.  A fellow was downloading data into a laptop from a new Norton rotary.  I told Werner that the things we learn to do by feel and intuition are done by electronic brains on the better equipped race teams.  The chap downloading the data worked on the bike and he also rode it.  We discussed handling geometry and tire selection.  He was interested, personable, and he knew quite a bit about bikes.  The person I was talking to owned the new Norton works.  There is a long British tradition of company owners racing the bikes they sell.  This really impressed me.

This thread is "If you could choose!!"  Life has taught me that people are more important than machines.  I would start racing the new Norton if I could!

[oz]

Hi Wobbly
the new norton is run  by a fella who was my ex gaffas daughters boyfriend at B.E.Aerospace a few years back, unfortunatley the threads are getting tenuous there its not what you know its who you know.

[fastesthonda_jim]

Hey Oz,

Nice idea, doing something with older iron.  I run GSXR's in my race car, but I've got an old Triumph TT replica and a 750 Rickman Triumph that I REALLY love tinkering with.  And while I realize you don't want to just drop in a GSXR to make it run, that doesn't mean your thinking and your knowledge base has to remain in the 1980's (or wherever).  I mean I'm guessing it's okay with you at some point to use fuel injection on a 650 Triumph Bonneville if it'll make more HP. 

If you can get a busted up GSXR, take one apart and take the technology they have developed and apply it to your vintage engine in as many ways as you can.  #1 is the cylinder head.  If you can't see STRAIGHT DOWN to the valves when you twist the throttle open, you are losing HP.  Even the tiniest intake angle costs.  And NA it's power you can never get back.  I.e., use a diffferent engine.  Or at least adapt a different head.

Look at the GSXR block where they bore a fairly big hole parallel to the crank, all the way through the block, just below where the bottom ring stops at stroke bottom, to make it easier for the "wind" to blow back and forth between piston upsies/downsies.

Just because your motor dosen't say Zuki on it doesn't mean you can't plagerize their bore/stroke ratio, their rod length to stroke ratio, their piston pin height and offset, their deck height, etc.

In any event have fun.  My Zuki's are fast, but there's soul in my Triumphs.

JK

[kiwi]

It all depends on what you want to achieve.
If you are not going to be satisfied until you get xx mph on an obscure engine, then that is what you will need to do.
If you have the time, money, and resources to develop a "strange engine" + then build a bike, race it and get the results you are after, go for it. Personally I only had the time to build the bike, and just wanted a good reliable power plant to get it down the track. So unfortunately for me it was "another Busa" engine.
As much as I would like to develop a different engine, I don't have the time and money to do it with any hope of getting the level of performance I want.
 

[Cajun Kid]

Kiwi,

I sure understand that..  I wanted a "E"  motor  V8... Now I have one,, but whew,,, you are right about the  tons of time and money to do a "strange motor" .. but all in all,  it was worth it in the end...( I think)

Charles

[mj43]

Oz persevere

The challenge is the target you set yourself - not necessarily a record.
Bonneville was odd - I expected to jet down compared with testing back in the UK because of higher temps and the altitude but the reality was we jetted up.
Humidity near zero plus oxygenated fuel all went our way. Not sure how it would affect fuel injection but for carbs it helped.

We are going back in 2011 - target is beating the 500 proddy record on the 250, it will make us the fastest production two stroke. Not sure we can do it as that is another 12mph on what we have done but that is our target. If we make it awesome if not we will be back - faster and wiser than before.