Author Topic: ethanoll in fuel ?  (Read 14968 times)

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Offline Warp12

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Re: ethanoll in fuel ?
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2009, 06:05:51 PM »
how much ethanol can you have mixed with gas and still be in the gas class ? looks like all the oxygenated fuels have ethanol or methanol in them .  It looks like XXX racing fuel has 50% or so.

Roy

Roy, where can I get the information on the exact amount of ethanol in XXX race fuels? Thanks.

Shane

Offline sabat

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Re: ethanoll in fuel ?
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2009, 06:23:45 PM »
By "fuel", I'm hoping you mean for gasoline only.

Fuel classes usually include nitreous, nitro, alcohol and more -- and by using one "fuel", it would severly limit many competitors.

Stan

Yes, I meant event GAS.

Offline t russell

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Re: ethanoll in fuel ?
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2009, 08:34:31 PM »
Gas class must use track fuel.Fuel bring your own,nitro,alky,niterous,etc.E85 not sold at track there for fuel until Keith/Joe say other wise.
that simple.
terry

Offline Stan Back

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Re: ethanoll in fuel ?
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2009, 09:59:28 PM »
Hey -- even I understand it!

Stan
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: ethanoll in fuel ?
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2009, 12:58:24 AM »
These questions are a bit off topic, but it is important for us who run "from the pump" gas/ethanol blends in the engines we race when we are not racing.  Driving to work, shopping, etc.

It seems there is a lot of inconsistency between tankfuls.  Most are OK but occasionally some are bad.  The bad gas does not ping like the cheap gas of old.  Instead, the idle is rough and power is down.  We poured some gas from a particularly bad tank on the driveway and tossed a match on it.  It barely burned.  What makes this stuff so lousy?

Common wisdom around here is that ethanol blends deteriorate quickly during storage.  They say "Buy regular.  Its fresher because they sell it quicker."  Is this right?

Most Oregon towns have an ARCO, Union 76, Shell, or Chevron station.  Does one of these companies have a good quality control program so the gas they sell is consistent from load to load?

I used to carry some octane booster.  If I got a bad tank of gas I would put some in to stop the pinging.  Now I need some sort of booster to make the gas burn more energetically.  Is there such a thing?

Any help on this subject would be great.   

 

Offline salt27

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Re: ethanoll in fuel ?
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2009, 01:23:23 AM »
WobblyWalrus,
I have nonethanol premium pumped in cans and then only use it in my off road vehicles per law. :wink:
As I under stand it, Oregon has revamped the 10% ethenol law to not include premium.
I don't know when that goes into effect, but soon lets hope.

Don

Offline wrongway

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Re: ethanoll in fuel ?
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2009, 10:40:50 AM »
how much ethanol can you have mixed with gas and still be in the gas class ? looks like all the oxygenated fuels have ethanol or methanol in them .  It looks like XXX racing fuel has 50% or so.

Roy

Roy, where can I get the information on the exact amount of ethanol in XXX race fuels? Thanks.

Shane


you  can calculate it based on oxygen content , or if you have a sample , you can run a simple test by adding water and seeing how much gasoline there is when the alcohol seperates out. or buy a cheap kit with a dye for testing.

ethanol is 34% oxygen , xxx is 19%.. so maybe 55% ?

http://www.xxxracingfuel.com/?page_id=12

Roy


Offline goingfaster5

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Re: ethanoll in fuel ?
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2009, 11:17:08 AM »
They say "Buy regular.  Its fresher because they sell it quicker."  Is this right?
 

I spend a lot of time around '70s motorcycles, especially air-cooled BMWs. The higher compression version are very sensitive to bad gas. With the cylinder heads hanging out in the air like they do, it is really easy to hear what is going on in there.

We don't buy premium in our neighborhood or around the shop which are not in great neighborhoods, it is always stale.  We buy nothing higher than mid-grade.  Near the interstate, in "better" neighborhoods the premium seems to be fine.

Eric


Offline wrongway

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Re: ethanoll in fuel ?
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2009, 12:40:48 PM »
Gas class must use track fuel.Fuel bring your own,nitro,alky,niterous,etc.E85 not sold at track there for fuel until Keith/Joe say other wise.
that simple.
terry

Is that a new rule ? it wasnt that way for the last couple of years... bring a sealed container and pay the gas guy 20 bucks. He fills the tank and seals it.

Roy

Offline t russell

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Re: ethanoll in fuel ?
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2009, 09:09:01 PM »
[[/quote]

Is that a new rule ? it wasnt that way for the last couple of years... bring a sealed container and pay the gas guy 20 bucks. He fills the tank and seals it.

Roy
[/quote]
That is correct Per Joe/Keith.
The do allow that.
terry

Offline wrongway

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Re: ethanoll in fuel ?
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2009, 09:53:49 PM »

Quote
Is that a new rule ? it wasnt that way for the last couple of years... bring a sealed container and pay the gas guy 20 bucks. He fills the tank and seals it.

Roy
That is correct Per Joe/Keith.
The do allow that.
terry

so back to what i was saying ,,,If I pay enough money , i can get a sealed  container that is more than 50% ETHANOL and run in a gas class ?

doesnt sount right , but i can afford a 5 gal pail of XXX.

Roy
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 09:56:09 PM by wrongway »

Offline Dynoroom

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Re: ethanoll in fuel ?
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2009, 10:52:17 PM »
Ya know, I keep coming back to this thread. I know it's an ECTA issue. What ever Keith & Joe say is fine by me BUT....
As far as I'm concerned (and my opnion means nothing) ANY ethnol in the gasoline puts you in fuel.... Period! To bad that it's "pump gas". It's not gasoline like the guy before you ran. If that's how you want to get a record go for it.

Again, this is JMO. No hard feelings if I just "don't get it".
Michael LeFevers
Kugel and LeFevers Pontiac Firebird

Without Data You're Just Another Guy With An Opinion!

Racing is just a series of "Problem Solving" events that allow you to spend money & make noise...

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: ethanoll in fuel ?
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2009, 11:14:16 PM »
I think we've got a problem with a guy who just wants to make his own rules. Simply FOLLOW THE RULE BOOK. Quit trying to interpret it to what you want.

Pete

Offline wrongway

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Re: ethanoll in fuel ?
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2009, 11:23:16 PM »
Ya know, I keep coming back to this thread. I know it's an ECTA issue. What ever Keith & Joe say is fine by me BUT....
As far as I'm concerned (and my opnion means nothing) ANY ethnol in the gasoline puts you in fuel.... Period! To bad that it's "pump gas". It's not gasoline like the guy before you ran. If that's how you want to get a record go for it.

Again, this is JMO. No hard feelings if I just "don't get it".


It is not just xxx fuel , MR9 and others have performance gains with all kinds of additives. Some other organizations have banned these racing fuels and it is a moving target. As soon  as they ban a fuel , there are others that replace it and meet the regulations.  I WOULD LIKE TO SEE some ruling on gasoline/fuels .... and I agree that oxy fuels should be in a fuel class. But the current rules are real loose , and $15- $20 racing fuels are making more power , but maybe more fuel than gasoline.


Roy

Offline Dynoroom

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Re: ethanoll in fuel ?
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2009, 12:30:17 AM »
Ya know, I keep coming back to this thread. I know it's an ECTA issue. What ever Keith & Joe say is fine by me BUT....
As far as I'm concerned (and my opnion means nothing) ANY ethnol in the gasoline puts you in fuel.... Period! To bad that it's "pump gas". It's not gasoline like the guy before you ran. If that's how you want to get a record go for it.

Again, this is JMO. No hard feelings if I just "don't get it".


It is not just xxx fuel , MR9 and others have performance gains with all kinds of additives. Some other organizations have banned these racing fuels and it is a moving target. As soon  as they ban a fuel , there are others that replace it and meet the regulations.  I WOULD LIKE TO SEE some ruling on gasoline/fuels .... and I agree that oxy fuels should be in a fuel class. But the current rules are real loose , and $15- $20 racing fuels are making more power , but maybe more fuel than gasoline.
Roy

The ecta uses the scta rule book to my understanding. If this is so you are fighting a losing battle. The dielectric content is not the only answer. The fuel must match what is on site for the competators to use. If your rules allow you to bring in a "fuel" to run in gas class I only see problems. I understand you have found a loop hole but you know what the rule means or this thread would not have gotten this long.
Michael LeFevers
Kugel and LeFevers Pontiac Firebird

Without Data You're Just Another Guy With An Opinion!

Racing is just a series of "Problem Solving" events that allow you to spend money & make noise...