Author Topic: chassis tubing choice  (Read 4570 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ukracer

  • Guest
chassis tubing choice
« on: July 13, 2005, 04:13:55 AM »
When choosing tubing material for special construction chassis' what criteria applies? why would you choose 4130 over mild steel? and vise versa. The differance in cost doesn't interest me nor do any differances in forming/welding, I'm comfortable with both, I suppose I'm asking is one material "better" than the other? if so why? and ultimately in the case of a high speed crash does one material hold up better than the other (not allowing for design/fabrication issues) in the cockpit area? :?

[/quote]

John Beckett

  • Guest
chassis tubing choice
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2005, 12:29:38 PM »
4130 is great stuff and works well in drag race applications where weight is an issue. However use the mild steel, its recommended in the rule book too. It's easier to weld, and weight is not an issue with most LSR vehicles.

JB

Offline Dave Cox

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
    • http://www.olddeadcars.com
chassis tubing choice
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2005, 04:51:21 PM »
and mild steel bends at yield, doesn't break like chrome moly.

Dave

ron

  • Guest
chassis tubing choice
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2005, 08:15:18 PM »
A comparison of material properties for "mild steel" (1015) and 4130
provides some clues. (It should be noted that the type of heat treatment has an important effect on both materials. I will assume that both were normalized at 1600-1700 deg F).

The 1015 has an ultimate tensile strength of 61,600 psi, whereas 4130 is listed at 97,200 psi. So, the 4130 is almost 58% stronger than 1015.

The 1015 has a modulus of elacticity of 29,000 ksi compared to 29,700 ksi for 4130. So, 4130 is about 2% stiffer.

At equal static strength and stiffness, a structure constructed of 4130 will be lighter than one fabricated from 1015, as John mentioned.

However, the impact properties of 1015 are substantially better than 4130. The Izod impact results for 1015 of 84.8 ft-lbs are almost 31% higher than the 4130 at 64.2 ft-lbs. So, 1015 is tougher in impact,
Furthermore, 1015 elongates to a greater extent before failure than 4130
(37% elongation at break compared to 25% for 4130).

And impact performance should be the primary consideration for a rollcage.

Finally, welding creates thermal stresses. These stresses are more easily shouldered by 1015 than 4130. Yes, it is possible to heat treat the structure after welding, but most of us don't have an oven large enough to take a rollcage or tube frame for a Bonneville race car.

Certainly, there is great wisdom behind the rulebook's recommendation that John referenced!

Good luck with your project!

dwarner

  • Guest
chassis tubing choice
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2005, 10:32:06 PM »
Certainly, there is great wisdom behind the rulebook's recommendation ...
**********************

Now I have found my new email signature!!!!!!

Experience and common sense have at last surface in the message board world.

My day is made!

Warner

Offline Bob Beatty

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 43
chassis tubing choice
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2005, 10:53:41 AM »
Ron-
That is the clearest explanation of this important issue I've run across.  
Thanks.
Bob Beatty
 
 There is no such thing as too much horsepower
 338.954 MPH
 B/BFL

ukracer

  • Guest
chassis tubing choice
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2005, 12:12:10 PM »
Ron,
thanks, that's exactly the kind of reply I was looking for.  :D

Offline ack

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 334
chassis tubing choice
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2005, 12:38:21 PM »
Properly designed and fabricated 4130 will always be lighter and stronger than 1015.  How many F1,Champ,IRL,NHRA,circle track cars or aircraft fuselages do you see made out of mild steel?

ACK

Offline Bob Beatty

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 43
chassis tubing choice
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2005, 02:53:12 PM »
"Properly designed and fabricated 4130 will always be lighter
        and stronger than 1015. How many F1,Champ,IRL,NHRA,circle
        track cars or aircraft fuselages do you see made out of mild steel?"

ACK,
     You are absolutely right, and in a perfect world 4130 would be the best choice.  In our sport many of the teams do their own engineering and fabrication work.  Most of us do not have the resources and expertise available to us of a F-1 or IRL team or an aircraft manufacturer.  
     As you know, 4130 is sensitive to embrittlement if not welded and normalized with the proper technique.  Even the addition of a small bracket improperly welded later on could dangerously weaken the chassis structure.  
     Mild steel gets the job done just fine for the applications for which it is used on our cars.  It has the advantage of being easy to work with for the average welder while the extra weight is generally not a major issue in LSR.  And it does it without the disadvantages of the inherent brittleness and higher expertise requirements of 4130.
Bob Beatty
 
 There is no such thing as too much horsepower
 338.954 MPH
 B/BFL

Offline 1212FBGS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2532
    • http://www.motobody.com
chassis tubing choice
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2005, 04:12:16 PM »
The shop next door is SPD they make very high end SCORE off road trucks $500,000+"rollers" these chassis are 2" 065 and 095 wall 4130.  These 4130 trucks receive beatings that we would never dream of and see years of service. My opinion, 1 5/8" tubing .120 wall 4130 will make an indestructible chassis. In reality, build whatever you have the capabilities for.
Kent