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Author Topic: UK Lakester build G/GL  (Read 15175 times)
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fordboy628
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« Reply #180 on: December 12, 2018, 11:34:29 AM »


Now that the water pump pulley is redundant (on paper at earlky stage), and there is potentialy two or three hp gained from the exercise, the next question would be; do you need an alternator and could you therefore save another one or two hp (data from the interweb so its probably dodgy). Each engine situation will differ but I guess you could reasonably say no belts and pulleys is worth a few ponies on a n/a 2 litre four cylinder.

Counter arguements (or support for the total loss electrics approach) gratefuly received before I commit to engine water pump surgery.

John

Some "real world" numbers for your consideration, all verified by dyno testing:

A/   On the Milwaukee Midget 999 cc BMC "Grenade" the change to a gilmer belt driven under drive system from the stock based overdrive setup netted ~ 1.5 bhp, rpm range was 5500 rpm to 9000 rpm (planned, exceeded by driver  rolleyes)

2/   Again on the MM Grenade, change to an electric pump netted ~ 2.3 bhp over previous best, same rpm range.

d/   On 7000 rpm to 10,000 rpm Cosworth BDD F/Atlantic engines, a 30% under drive Vs crank speed water pump drive netted ~ 2.8 bhp.   The engine was originally run to only 8500/8800 rpm.

Cheers,
Fordboy
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fordboy628
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« Reply #181 on: December 12, 2018, 11:41:18 AM »

Stainless;

I've wondered about this for a while... a total loss electric system usually loses voltage as current is drained from the battery but that doesn't have to happen. If a buck/boost regulator is inserted into the line from the battery it will maintain 12V output until the battery is totally exhausted. In fact, you could adjust its output to be 12V, 14V, 16V, or whatever you wanted. Has anyone ever used one?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

On the new powerplant for the Milwaukee Midget, the decision has been made to go with a 15/16 volt battery, regulated, on a total loss system.    Will need to be charged on the line & between runs.    I'm sure it is posted on the Build Diary.   No doubt there will be commentary on how well it works out.   It does have room for an alternator though in case of a problem . . . . .    undecided

 cheers
Fordboy
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"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein
kiwi belly tank
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« Reply #182 on: December 12, 2018, 01:16:44 PM »

The end goal is to not lose voltage so there's many ways to do that including capacitors. If you're worried about 1.5 hp loss with an alternator, a screw head in the wrong place on the body skin will suck up that much.
The Davies-Craig water pump from Aus has been around for years & comes with a controller.
I have two Meziere pumps on the KB.
  Sid.
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manta22
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« Reply #183 on: December 12, 2018, 02:30:51 PM »

Sid, you couldn't fit a capacitor big enough to make a difference into a 40 ft streamliner. Not enough energy storage in a capacitor.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
ronnieroadster
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« Reply #184 on: December 12, 2018, 04:13:31 PM »

Sid, you couldn't fit a capacitor big enough to make a difference into a 40 ft streamliner. Not enough energy storage in a capacitor.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ




 Using a set of capacitors that are actuated near the end of the run will work perfectly on a total loss system its been done many times.
     John to save on the HP drain on my Flathead Ford V-8 combination the only item the crankshaft turns on the front of the engine is the blower belt. For cooling I run two electric water pumps the other 12 volt main power items include ignition system fuel pump and data which gives me voltage readings during the run typical mumbers 12.2 to 12.4 nearing mile three.  To power two other pumps i use for the intercooler and crankcase i use two small alarm batteries their combined size and weight is less than the Optima main battery. Charging the main battery before the run is simple. To charge the two alarm battery's a simple trickle charger works perfectly. With this simple system we experienced no issues running  three miles on the salt. After the run we shut down the engine but keep the water pumps running to protect against that heat surge. I recently became aware of the capacitor use ideas that others have done since my car is long coarse qualified its something Im looking at if i plan on running past mile three.
 Ronnieroadster
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 04:16:41 PM by ronnieroadster » Logged

Working in the shop I use the 'F' word a lot. No not that word these words Focus and Finish go Fast and Flathead Ford!
 ECTA  XF/BGRMR Record 179.8561
 LTA    XF/BGRMR  Record 200.921 First  Ford Flathead Roadster to hit 200 MPH July 2018
 SCTA  XF/BGRMR Record 195.650
 SCTA  XXF/BGRMR Record 216.131 plus a Red Had
"Life Memeber of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club"
manta22
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« Reply #185 on: December 12, 2018, 05:59:47 PM »

RR;

To power an electric fuel pump and a CD ignition you'll need about 10 amps or more. This is going to require a very large capacitor to supply enough energy even for the last 15 or 20 seconds- a kiloJoule or more. A Supercapacitor can supply significant energy but they are not cheap. A boost/buck regulator is a far better approach- it maintains its output at 12V (or whatever you adjust it to) even if the battery starts out at 12.7V and  discharges down to 8V.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
ronnieroadster
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« Reply #186 on: December 12, 2018, 09:03:20 PM »

RR;

To power an electric fuel pump and a CD ignition you'll need about 10 amps or more. This is going to require a very large capacitor to supply enough energy even for the last 15 or 20 seconds- a kiloJoule or more. A Supercapacitor can supply significant energy but they are not cheap. A boost/buck regulator is a far better approach- it maintains its output at 12V (or whatever you adjust it to) even if the battery starts out at 12.7V and  discharges down to 8V.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


 Interesting info Neil Thanks i will look into the boost/buck regulator still more to learn thats what makes me enjoy all of this.
     Ronnieroadster
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Working in the shop I use the 'F' word a lot. No not that word these words Focus and Finish go Fast and Flathead Ford!
 ECTA  XF/BGRMR Record 179.8561
 LTA    XF/BGRMR  Record 200.921 First  Ford Flathead Roadster to hit 200 MPH July 2018
 SCTA  XF/BGRMR Record 195.650
 SCTA  XXF/BGRMR Record 216.131 plus a Red Had
"Life Memeber of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club"
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