Author Topic: Car Tire on a bike ( video )  (Read 22709 times)

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Offline Larry Forstall

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Re: Car Tire on a bike ( video )
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2009, 07:03:33 PM »
Bill Warner's tire is a Z rated MOTORCYCLE tire designed with a radiused sidewall which safely allows lean. Bill has been leaning that bike alot recently with no issues other than he probably would go even faster upright. The square car profile loses contact patch as it is leaned (see video) which is OK until the bike is upset by a bump and then there is no guarantee the tire will allow the bike to self center. I am all for innovation but this is more like Fred Flintstone.    :roll:    larry

Offline DahMurf

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Re: Car Tire on a bike ( video )
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2009, 07:05:47 PM »
Entropy, granted, I'm sure there are doubters of Bill's tire choice however it is still a motorcycle tire. Anyone running over 186mph is pushing the approved limit of the available motorcycle tires as it is. I don't see that Bill did anything dramatically different he just thought outside the box a little and used a wider tire.

The car tire is an entirely different story. In my opinion (yeah I know the @ saying) but he's trying to adapt a tire for use in a manor for which it was not intended as a bandaid to an entirely different set of problems all while there is superior and proven equipment available. Now don't get me wrong, we're all about innovation and fabrication. Heck there's not a metric bike that has left our shop that's not secretly sporting a Harley part {gasp} but never when there is a better, proven, readily available item to be had.

For all we've seen go on at Maxton I just don't get why a car tire would be allowed on a bike at the track. Yeah I get that so far he hasn't gone fast enough for it to matter but it's only a matter of time. Some of our best riders have taken out cones heck some of our not so great riders have too... ahem... but the point being, as was said above, if this little experiment fails as it is destined to do as he continues to try to push the limit, we ALL suffer! The trees are gone, the cross winds are stronger, conditions & the track change not to mention the wildlife. You can't just count on going straight and making one {hopefully} controlled turn.

I don't understand stating that the fastest bikes had to dial it down. What kind of comparison is that? Yes they had to in order to keep the power to the ground and the wheel from spinning so what I wonder is why doesn't he just do that? So far the majority of the riders don't do as well with an extended swing arm at our track because they can't hook up with it hanging out there. Many many people have proven you don't need to launch hard enough to stand the bike up and in fact if you're trying to go fast, standing the bike up only slows you down.

I don't know, I just don't get it. Why where motorcycle tires even designed if car tires were adequate or even superior? How much more horse power needs to be used and how much more speed obtained before the motorcycle tires are proven?

I dunno, maybe I'm just a dumb girl cause I don't get it!  :roll:
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Offline wrongway

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Re: Car Tire on a bike ( video )
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2009, 11:32:59 PM »
OK , so a superior tire requires a waiver saying that I know I am running beyond its limits , but the car tire is legal by ECTA/SCTA rules on a car up to 225 mph.

The car tire is rated at 1250 lbs at 50 psi
the superior motorcycle tire is rated at 800 lbs at 42 psi

the weight of my bike and rider is 770 lbs . That means that the superior MC tire is running at 96% of its rated capacity and beyond it rated speed but the car tire is running at 61% of its rated load  and under its rated speed....

If I have to sign a waiver that I understand I am taking a risk , I would rather be on a car tire.

Roy

Offline John Noonan

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« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2009, 11:51:40 PM »
 :roll:
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 10:16:15 AM by John Noonan »

Offline sabat

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Re: Car Tire on a bike ( video )
« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2009, 12:15:00 AM »
the superior motorcycle tire is rated at 800 lbs at 42 psi

the weight of my bike and rider is 770 lbs . That means that the superior MC tire is running at 96% of its rated capacity

Not to pick nits, but unless you are on a mile-long wheelie, your total weight would be divided across both front and rear tires.

In any case, the car tire is rated for a vehicle with 4 wheels that doesn't lean, so I'm not sure it's a fair comparison.

Offline Cajun Kid

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Re: Car Tire on a bike ( video )
« Reply #50 on: July 23, 2009, 12:31:27 AM »
I don't have a dog in this fight other than the fact that I would not like to see anyone run and get hurt because of a safety concern that was not corrected before said vehicle was allowed to make it's run.

Seems to me that John and other very experienced riders and inspectors have voiced opinions and concerns.

The last line of defense against any of us starting or making a run with a "potential safety issue" is the tech inspectors and starting line officials.

If I was the guy in the video with the car tire, If I showed up with the car tire to a LSR venue on a bike, I would make sure to have an extra rim with approved motorcycle tire mounted and ready to go,,, as if I read between all the lines,,, that setup poses a "safety concern"...

My advice, don't run the car tire on the bike, and carry a bike tire mounted and ready !!!!

OK I'm  outta here....

Charles
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Offline wrongway

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Re: Car Tire on a bike ( video )
« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2009, 01:03:53 AM »

Not to pick nits, but unless you are on a mile-long wheelie, your total weight would be divided across both front and rear tires.

In any case, the car tire is rated for a vehicle with 4 wheels that doesn't lean, so I'm not sure it's a fair comparison.

I dont know about that , the torque applied to the rear wheel is also trying to lift the nose... Under full power the rear tire has most of the weight unless you have some aero down force or have enough lift to limit the torque applied.

and under most conditions , the car tire on a bike is flat and not leaned over.

here is a video of the bike on a highway crossing 2 lanes. This is more aggressive than the correction  on the track so it should give you  an idea what the bike will really see on a run.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oDxk0HkE4o

Roy

Offline Beairsto Racing

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Re: Car Tire on a bike ( video )
« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2009, 01:08:43 AM »
Roy,
I enjoyed your video but it was like watching a scary movie, I just kept waiting for something bad to happen.

I believe "nothing ventured, nothing gained". You tried the car tire set up and survived, you sought feed back on your idea and you would be wise to heed the advice from several very experienced land speed racers.

If you want to increase your rear tire's contact patch, you might consider getting a ZR motorcycle tire shaved. It will still have a relatively round profile , there will be greater contact and it will be a proper motorcycle tire for your motorcycle application. Nate Jones supports our sport and offers a quick turn around.
Good luck.

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Offline sabat

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Re: Car Tire on a bike ( video )
« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2009, 01:18:57 AM »
Sure Roy, there's more weight on the rear than the front tire under power, but not ALL the weight. So the 96% capacity claim is an overstatement. And yes, most of the time the tire is flat. But I think the issue is that some of the time it's not.

I really don't know, it may be perfectly fine to run a car tire on a land speed bike, I'm not a tire engineer. I just don't see the need- people are doing very well with motorcycle tires, so to me it's a suspect solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Dean

Offline wrongway

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Re: Car Tire on a bike ( video )
« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2009, 01:29:45 AM »
I am not trying to convert the Land Speed world, just sharing info on tests. I understand most dont want to go this route, but I am willing to show test runs and share info. 


And if there is going to be a rule change before the Loring event , please let me know.

I have not seen any negative results from my runs at Maxton, so I have no reason to change.

Roy

Offline racer x

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Re: Car Tire on a bike ( video )
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2009, 06:33:01 AM »
  I run a very small very low powered bike . The 250cc four stroke. I have thought of using a front tire from a motorcycle on the rear to reduce drag . As it is I run the max recommended tire pressure to get the tire on a point . judging from the dirt on the tire I ride on about three inches of rubber. It looks to me like Roy has a lot more rubber on the ground . BUT he is going twice as fast .

Is the concern hear that the bike will loose control or the tire will fail?
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Offline saltwheels262

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Re: Car Tire on a bike ( video )
« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2009, 09:26:57 AM »
i agree w/ most replies; put a motorcycle tire on
your bike .  way less chance of any problems.

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Offline narider

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Re: Car Tire on a bike ( video )
« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2009, 10:14:44 AM »
Is the concern hear that the bike will loose control or the tire will fail?

The concern is that the rider will fail with that tire on his bike, where as  safe and specific designed tire will allow him the room for error and prep him for higher speeds should he and his bike be able to obtain them.
Todd

Offline wrongway

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Re: Car Tire on a bike ( video )
« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2009, 11:42:09 AM »
Is the concern hear that the bike will loose control or the tire will fail?

The concern is that the rider will fail with that tire on his bike, where as  safe and specific designed tire will allow him the room for error and prep him for higher speeds should he and his bike be able to obtain them.
Todd

I think I have demonstrated the the car tire is capable of maintaining control in situations more extreme than is seen at the land speed events with the videos.  Safe runs at Maxton ( and I am sure there were with alot of eyes on it ) also show that the bike can run down a not-so straight track with no issues. Running a car tire on a drag bike is not a new idea and prostock bikes have run a car slick for decades without any handling issues. 

While you may believe that there maybe a potential for  not being able to control the bike , I dont think there are any facts support that.

Offline joea

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Re: Car Tire on a bike ( video )
« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2009, 12:10:09 PM »
your statement...."I think I have demonstrated the the car tire is capable of maintaining control in situations more extreme than is seen at the land speed events with the videos"............

is interesting...........

your obviously speaking from your experience............

which in the land speed world is...?

records...?speeds.....?   the only response to your speeds
has been...."very fast"..........define very fast............

...........situations more extreme than seen at land speed events.........really...?

when the rear wheel is spinning.....say when coefficient of friction is exceeded......
and the rear wheel begins oscillating....ie sliding left and or right......what do you
think the edge of the tire does or will do............that video would be enlightening.......

modified to remove inhappy smiley faces that for some reason are automatically generated
to certain keystrokes....
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 05:50:03 PM by joea »