Author Topic: When is a motorcycle engine, not a motorcycle engine  (Read 50255 times)

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Offline willieworld

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Re: When is a motorcycle engine, not a motorcycle engine
« Reply #60 on: August 31, 2009, 06:40:56 PM »
you are right it isnt clear at all --i would think that major engine parts would at the very least include the cases and crankshaft  ----------if i get a chance i will post the letters today  ---willie buchta
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Offline 1212FBGS

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Re: When is a motorcycle engine, not a motorcycle engine
« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2009, 06:49:12 PM »
we've been down this road before...... what about S&S cases and other aftermarket cases..... what about if i decided to make my own billet or cast cases.... this special construction motor is classified and will be used where it belongs..... in special construction..... let it go.....
Kent

Offline John Noonan

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Re: When is a motorcycle engine, not a motorcycle engine
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2009, 06:54:33 PM »
sorry john...----you always seem to have problems with the phone...



Mike

Mike,

You are lucky that you deal with the Vintage class Roadster or we would take your records too..

Thanks for the icons... :wink:


John

Offline John Noonan

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Re: When is a motorcycle engine, not a motorcycle engine
« Reply #63 on: August 31, 2009, 06:56:12 PM »
Willie,

What I was stating was if you had the answer already you should have posted it..

POST IT ! ! ! !  :-D


J

Offline John Noonan

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Re: When is a motorcycle engine, not a motorcycle engine
« Reply #64 on: August 31, 2009, 06:57:27 PM »
we've been down this road before...... what about S&S cases and other aftermarket cases..... what about if i decided to make my own billet or cast cases.... this special construction motor is classified and will be used where it belongs..... in special construction..... let it go.....
Kent

Kent,

Also SC, S, SCS... :wink:


John


Offline willieworld

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Re: When is a motorcycle engine, not a motorcycle engine
« Reply #65 on: August 31, 2009, 07:42:27 PM »
you are right john --i received the final letter yesterday--i have a few minutes and will post them now  --the first post is a question to the scta---the second is a reply from van butler--the third is my reply to van butler ---the forth is vans reply back to me --

Here is the information submitted towww.scta-bni.org/Rulebook/rule-question09.php from 76.125.46.31 on Sunday,July 26th, 2009 at 4:14 pm.------------------------Name: willie buchta Address: 921 chicago ave City: modesto State: California Zip Code: 95351 Home Phone: 209-6816876 Email Address: willieworld@hotmail.com Cell Phone: 209-6816876 Rulebook Section: 7.J Rulebook Page No: 124 Question: there is a company that makes a hayabusa V 8 engine they use the top end from the hayabusa and make the cases and crankshaft ---the motor has a car transmission bellhousing pattern on the back of the motor-------what motorcycle classes can i run this motor in ? thank you willie buchta
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Offline willieworld

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Re: When is a motorcycle engine, not a motorcycle engine
« Reply #66 on: August 31, 2009, 07:44:06 PM »
This is Van Butler's reply.

V 8 Busa‏
From:  Catherine Juneau (catherinejuneau3@mac.com) 
Sent: Sat 8/29/09 12:30 PM
To:  Sheri buchta (willieworld@hotmail.com)
Cc:  tom evans (oileaky2@yahoo.com)

 Willie.Thank you for the question sorry it took me so long to get back to you we were busy with Speedweek. To answer your question yes the V8 Busa is legal and you can run it in these classes, A, APS, Streamliner, Sidecar, and Sidecar Streamliner.Kind Regards,Van Butler
willie-dpombatmir-buchta

Offline willieworld

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Re: When is a motorcycle engine, not a motorcycle engine
« Reply #67 on: August 31, 2009, 07:45:42 PM »
Then I wrote back to Van and tried to present the other side of the story...

Van,
Thank you for your response. You've been doing this a lot longer than me, but upon reading my rulebook, I find some exceptions to my answers. In the A class, which is special construction, on page 116 7.g.9 under engine: "any single or dual combination of motorcycle engine is permitted." Under streamliner on page 121 7.h.18 engine:"Any single or dual combination of motorcycle engines permitted." Under page 125  7.j.5 class f : " Unlimited in design, but will be comprised of major parts and components designed primarily for use in motorcycle engines." Page 125 7.j.6 class g:"Same as class f." Page 125 7.j.9:class pg and pf :" Any motorcycle engine with pushrod operating valves. The camshaft shall be located at least one crankshaft stroke below the OEM cylinder deck postion or that utilize OEM pushrod length at least twice the crankshaft stroke. 7.j.10, Class vg and vf:"Same as class g or f except that the class is limited to motorcycle engines produced prior to 1956.
If I read that correctly it seems that none of those classes would allow a v8 hyabusa or any v8 thats built with a set of motorcycle barrels and heads as the only motorcycle part in the motor. And that doesn't have a transmission and the back of the motor is set up for a car bellhousing clutch and transmission. There are a couple of classes that do allow motors other than motorcycle. And according to the rulebook,that would be page 126 7.j.12 and page 109  Any reciprocating engine which uses the otto cycle, May run in streamliner category. Super charged engines do not advance class size. 7.j.13 class omega" Any engine using a thermal dynamic cycle other than otto." Page 109 7.d.4
A    all except ug,uf and omega."
APS Al excetp ug and ug.
S    all
SC  all except omega
SCS all except omega. '
 
Thats what the rulebook says.
The way I read it that means no car engines except for ug and uf. If memory serves me corretly last year there was a vote taken if we should allow car engines in the motorcycle classes and the vote was no.
 
 Please don't respond with your wrong. When you respond let me know why so I can understand better.
Willie Buchta
 
I'm new to all this, If I have it wrong please let me know.
willie-dpombatmir-buchta

Offline willieworld

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Re: When is a motorcycle engine, not a motorcycle engine
« Reply #68 on: August 31, 2009, 07:46:52 PM »
In which he replied:

Re: V 8 Busa‏
From:  Catherine Juneau (catherinejuneau3@mac.com) 
Sent: Sun 8/30/09 8:43 AM
To:  Sheri buchta (willieworld@hotmail.com)
Cc:  tom evans (oileaky2@yahoo.com); Roy Creel (cree@antelecom.net); Lee Kennedy (Lee.Kennedy@avmetrics.net)

        Willie
Thanks , I will take each one of your issues and explain.
In the case of the V8 busa , it does not matter what kind of bellhousing, transmission, ect,
it uses. The issue is the engine. In this case the engine is comprised of major parts and
components designed primarily for use in motorcycle engines. The cylinders, pistons,rods,
heads, cams, ect, ect. (7 j 5 -  7 j 6).
7 g 9 - correct, any engine is permitted.
7 h 18- correct, any motorcycle engine is permitted.
7 j 5 - correct, as I explained above.
7 j 6 - same as above.
7 j 9-  does not apply, this is not a pushrod engine.
7 j 10- does not apply, vintage?
7 j 12- correct, any auto cycle or (conrod) engine is legal.
7 j 13- does not apply, this is for electric, thermodynamic, air car, ect.
As for the rule change request you asked about, I reviewed all of my records from last year.
It was sent, by email to Motorcycle Racer Advisory Board, and the Motorcycle Rules Committee, for review. Then to the SCTA Rules Committee for vote. It was.........
Issue: In the motorcycle special construction class, it is time we let any internal combustion
2 stroke or 4 stroke otto cycle motor run. We need to take out the word " motorcycle "in the
engine section.
The vote was to DENY the rule requests change.
I hope this clears up your questions.
Regards, Van     Motorcycle Committee Chair
willie-dpombatmir-buchta

Offline willieworld

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Re: When is a motorcycle engine, not a motorcycle engine
« Reply #69 on: August 31, 2009, 07:55:14 PM »
please note someone submitted a rule change to drop the word motorcycle from the engine rules (which would have let in car motors in the motorcycle classes)  the vote was NO  ----enough said   willie buchta
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Offline 1212FBGS

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Re: When is a motorcycle engine, not a motorcycle engine
« Reply #70 on: August 31, 2009, 08:37:38 PM »
so Willie.....
what is your motivation behind your letters to the SCTA? were you, and are you going to buy and run a V8 busa powered motor? or were you just stirring up crap?
kent

Offline theazoldcrow

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Re: When is a motorcycle engine, not a motorcycle engine
« Reply #71 on: August 31, 2009, 09:01:46 PM »
 :-o  Willie stir up crap?   NNaaaawwww, never happen!   lol lol lol    Crow.
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Offline willieworld

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Re: When is a motorcycle engine, not a motorcycle engine
« Reply #72 on: August 31, 2009, 09:18:51 PM »
no kent im not going to buy a v8 busa motor or any other busa motor ---i was just curious if the no car motor rule (voted on last year) would be enforced --as you can see it isnt going to be --this is not the first time ive ran into the rules not really meaning what they say---i guess in the end we will have to get a stack of letters to take with us to tech---i just think the rule book should be more precise--and then we wouldnt be having this discussion---but im not in charge (and dont want to be) land racing is not a lifestyle for me its just something that i enjoy doing ---and i would enjoy it a lot more if i didnt have to worry about the rules being interpret one way this week and another next week ---if asking questions is "stirring up crap " put my name on the list   just spell it right   Willie Buchta
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Offline theazoldcrow

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Re: When is a motorcycle engine, not a motorcycle engine
« Reply #73 on: August 31, 2009, 11:01:04 PM »
 :cheers:  That's my boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Love ya Willie.......Crow.
The Earth, is an intergalactic insane asylum.!

Offline Stan Back

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Re: When is a motorcycle engine, not a motorcycle engine
« Reply #74 on: August 31, 2009, 11:20:34 PM »
"Please don't respond with your wrong."

It helps when criticizing a literal meaning of the rules to do it literately.

Stan
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records