When is a motorcycle engine, not a motorcycle engine

[Stan Back]

"Where else can ingenuity and lateral thinking be encouraged"

Try NASCAR or IRL.

Methinks you're overstating your objections a bit.

I've never seen two streamliners alike.


Stan Back

[willieworld]

motomax   the subject of this thread is scta rule questions---last year the scta clubs took a vote on letting motorcycles run car engines ----if you had a 09 rule book you would know the results of that vote ---if its a motorcycle it will run a motorcycle engine(s) (with a couple of exceptions)  build something come on out and race and have a good time ---go to scta stores       scta-bni.orghttp://      there are 6.772 billion people on spaceship earth  about 500 will be at speedweek   how much different do you want to be ----  you will find lsr is about going as fast  as you can      nothing else counts ---            willie buchta

[bak189]

Talk......talk....talk.....Blah....Blah.....Blah....but nobody has answered his question....so-far.............

[McRat]

He can't get a "solid" answer on the internet.  He needs to contact the folk in the SCTA who make the rulings. 

Now just rambling...

I gotta admit I'm puzzled how a Busa engine can be thought of as a car engine.  Even when you double the displacement, it's barely as big as typical econobox engine, and the smog control provisions are pretty meager for a modern car based on the year the Busa came out.  It other words, no way in heck could a mfr put the Busa engine (even as a V8) in a production car.  It's one of the reasons production car engines are hard pressed to match the HP/CI of bike engines, their design is restricted because they must be installed in cars that obey government laws, as well as being able to power a heavy vehicle reliably at low speeds.

But if I were concerned about the fact the company advertises this race-only motorcycle-based engine as being a "car engine", I'd probably contact them and request they make a motorcycle-only version for you.  Probably install a very weak horn on it or have it shipped with a handful of pre-addressed speeding tickets.

[willieworld]

its pretty obvious to me that most of you havent read the scta rule book --that would be a good place to start ---if after that you still have questions  you can address them to the scta ---  if you read 7.J.1 through 7.J.13 and 7.D.1 through 7.D.4  and page 176 through 179  you should be able to figure it out    willie buchta

[bak189]

Interesting.....to say the least.....For many years we ran a 125c.c. Rotax engine powered bike....the engine was actually a racing kart engine (so not legal as per SCTA/BNI) However, the Rotax factory also sold this racing engine to motorcycle roadrace teams......so it was a motorcycle engine after all........I had the factory supply me with paper work noting it was a "motorcycle" engine.....just in case we had a protest.................

[McRat]

Certainly it could go UG or UF class, since it's unlimited.  I guess the big question would be the F, G, BF or BG engine classes. 

"F,G,BF,BG" engine (paraphrased) 'unlimited design and comprised of major components designed for motorcycles'.  I'd think it would qualify, but I'd certainly get a firm SCTA decision on it before building for those classes.  It does not specify how much motorcycle content is required, or how "designed for" is defined.

[bak189]

And then......and then.....Back in 1980 I came to Bonneville with a bike powered by a proto-type Rotax
engine using the front halve of a 500c.c. snowmobile and the back halve a Norton gearbox......Can-Am planned to market this for a very fast street bike (they never did)  This engine was build for a motorcycle only by the Rotax factory.........Tom Evans said "not a motorcycle engine..Time only"  I had no paper work indicating that it WAS a motorcycle engine.....so ran for time only (it was fast).................................
How many records are on the books using a Vincent drone engine???  Square barrel 500c.c. Tri. engine
(generator engine)................It is a "grey area" and always will be....................................................

PS>  I know......I know.... the square barrel Tri. engine was used in the Tri. bike in 1948.....and it even won the Isle of Man that year..................................................................................................

[1212FBGS]

i believe you can modify an engine to whatever extent your money can buy..... you can cut your crankcases up and melt them down to cast whatever main case you wish.... that V8 uses production hyabusa motorcycle cylinders, heads, cams, etc... as a motorcycle rules committee member if the question came to me for a vote i would say yes.... but i am not the last, final, or official vote.... ask Tom "AND" Van..... Yes, the brits are commin with one....
Kent

[MotoMax]

Cheers Rex..........It appears there is an outfit from the UK that are doing the same thing (http://www.angelicbulldog.org.uk/)  and like all coincidences I know the guy building it “Gabriel Uttley”  we use to chat regularly in the pits at Le mans in the mid 90’s during world endurance events......small world isn’t it.
Also Kent......Thanks for the vote of confidence and reason, there should me more open minded people like yourself....do you have Tom and Van’s email addresses? I suppose they will be in the rule book, but mine hasn’t arrived yet....it must be coming on a slow boat.
I have entered this year’s Bubs on a Turbocharged CBR600RR that I built five years ago for competing at the Macau GP........looking forward to it, I suppose I will get the answers to my many questions whilst there.
Good luck everyone!

[guttley782]

Yes Steve, Kent is a hero with his head firmly screwed on in the right place! This debate will run, but the big question is whether it is FIM legal, as you cannot attempt the record at Speed week through the SCAT, where we will run for time only next year. Regards, Gabriel.

[Rex Schimmer]

The Powertec motor may have a slight advantage over running a pair of Hayabusas like the Ack Attack, it may be marginally more efficient because it has only one crank and does not require a chain to connect two engines together, but the real horse power is in the heads and the heads and cylinders on the Powertec are motorcycle parts plain and simple. Can't see it not being legal, it would not exist today if it wasn't for a motorcycle.

With a big enough pile of money I am sure you could take a pair of motorcycle engines set them side by side so the cranks went north and south and you could cut off the cases until you could connect them with a gear train and then use a tranny like the Powertec Quaife and have about the same thing as a Powertec and I would certainly think there would be no question about the legality  but why reinvent the wheel, the Powertec engine already exist and it is a spin off of a motorcycle engine.

Rex

[oz]

My way of thinking is that the Powermax or whatever it is called is sold solely as a powerplant it could run a Tractor a Ditch Pump a Washing machine it is not dedicated to any one thing until it is coupled to a gearbox and drive train then it becomes the power unit for whatever it is linked to.
Are we going to stop the use of Aircraft engines in cars,It would have stopped alot of guys in the past setting some increible records.
I understand saying you cnt use a car engine in a bike,Say a chevvy v8 or something but this engne is just a power plant with no dedicated vehicle in production as far as I know.

And its kinda half bike

just my ten peneth!!

Oz 

[landracing]

An angelicbulldog website claims 450 mph base and adding 300 hp nitrous along with claims of better aero and more power then competitors... How about reliability? 300 hp nitrous is not very reliable power... Those who have history with nitrous can tell you that it is very hard HP to tame... Call it cheap mans HP, but in reality it is expensive.... Put a turbo on it and you can build all the reliability you want. Hard to beat out aero of Sam wheeler.....  More power to them...

Also in regards to original post it stinks that car guys can use a motorcycle powered engine but bike guys can't use a car engine. Does that not sound right?

I saw early years photos seventies and 80's of car engines in bikes however I dont know when or why the rule changed.. Need Dolan for that one...

JonAmo

[LSR Mike]

guess SCTA want's to keep the Boss Hoss Crowd off the salt....