New I/G Streamliner Build

[Ro Yale]

Nice car!! Good luck and be safe!

[interested bystander]

Outstanding workmanship and engineering.

 Have one bone to pick, though . The tubular "gussets" on the roll cage to the shoulder hoop  need to be .125 steel plates, as I recall.

[Dynoroom]

Outstanding workmanship and engineering.

 Have one bone to pick, though . The tubular "gussets" on the roll cage to the shoulder hoop  need to be .125 steel plates, as I recall.

I.B. Many cars are built with tubing in this area, plate is not a requirement as I recall.

[Cajun Kid]

I agree with Dyno,,, you may use tubular or plate gussets.  As I recall you can choose open or closed corner gussets as well.  Open corner would seem best as they don't give salt a place to rest and hide...

Just my understanding and opinion.

Charles

[oneliterlandspeed]

Jerry,
The page you need to look at is 24, 25 and 26. 3.B1 reads - Gussets are required at tube junctions of hoops and shoulder rail. Gussets shall be made from mild steel, .125 in. minimum thickness and 4 in. per side, preferably stitch welded on the outside of the tube junction, and are required at all shoulder bar attachment points. Grinding of welds is NOT permitted, See Figures 2 and 3. Page 26 does read -Deviation requests shall include strength calculation, drawings and/or pictures... if you would like to keep your tube gussets.  The intent of this gusset is to tear not break when the event of an impact strikes the roll cage. That is why tech prefers the stitch weld. Don't forget the rule book is a wealth of knowledge, years of people taking the time to investigate very unfortunate events on the salt and making a correction to see it does not happen again. it should never be more than a arms reach away.


Terry

[interested bystander]

Thanx oneliter, none of us bothered to check the RULE BOOK!

Personaly, and I've done two LEGAL SCTA rollbars recently,  I LIKE the TUBING!!!

Somebody might check NHRAs "PATCH" on older chassis that don't have a tube internally inserted where the RB attaches. They want a VERTICAL back of and up to to the front bar, nothing beyond.

Not legal SCTA/BNI and not necessarily the best idea.

[Jerry O]

Terry,  If I understand you correctly, the rule book states that I can use the tube braces as long as I have them approved.  Unfortunately, I did not think this would be a issue,  when I was is the design stage of my chassis I pulled up about every car photo I could find to see what other cars that ran Bonneville was using. I found that some had tubes and some had the .125 plates. I have been building all types of race cars for the past 30 years and have my own oppinion of the use of the braces but my opinion does not count , the rule book is what I have to follow.  Buy the way, hope you are feeling better and look forward to hearing from you next week.      Thanks.....Jerry

[interested bystander]

Your last comments are correct re: what actually races out there .

Way to many violations of a rather simple, well-defined rule.

He's the tech guy's buddy so tech guy  looks the other way.

Or tech man is IGNORANT of the rule!

[Dynoroom]

Terry,  If I understand you correctly, the rule book states that I can use the tube braces as long as I have them approved.  Unfortunately, I did not think this would be a issue,  when I was is the design stage of my chassis I pulled up about every car photo I could find to see what other cars that ran Bonneville was using. I found that some had tubes and some had the .125 plates. I have been building all types of race cars for the past 30 years and have my own oppinion of the use of the braces but my opinion does not count , the rule book is what I have to follow.  Buy the way, hope you are feeling better and look forward to hearing from you next week.      Thanks.....Jerry

The bottom line is this rule was written in blood (as many are). A cage with o-to-thin tubing crashed at El Mirage. The cage bars pushed into the shoulder bar during a mishap. As the car continued to crash the cage was ripped off. That is why a plate with stitch welding is recommended. End of story. Do what you think will keep you safe.

[Cajun Kid]

Jerry,

Would it be possible to keep the tube braces as you have them and just add a stitched in plate gusset ?

The Liner looks great, I know you did good research, and some of the diagrams show tubes sone show plates and many pics of cars show some of each design.

Talk soon,,, need your sdvice on the cage matter we spoke about Wednesday.

Charles

[Jerry O]

Dynoroom..... It is not what I think that will keep me safe,  It is what the rule book states. That is what I will follow.  Unfortunately I had a tech guy tell me the tube braces would be OK and recommended them. The one thing I am learning is even though the rule book is  black and white about the rules, there seams to be some grey areas depending on what some tech guys will pass or not pass. I feel confident that as long as people like you and the others that have given me advice, I will be OK.  Thanks again for your help.

[Jerry O]

Charles........ I will have to do some research on that. I am hoping I will be able to just add the .125 plates and not have to cut the tubes out.  Call me anytime and we can talk about your cage or maybe I can make a trip to Welcome.

[hitz]

The cage attachment drawing is a little confusing to me. The text that describes attachment of the gusset says it is recommended to stitch weld it to the shoulder bar. Some wire welders have a stitch control that is adjustable and welds with a series of arcs that can be adjusted for time on and time off. Most welders have learned to do it with out the controller.

  The drawing shows a skip/staggered/intermittent weld. Welding symbols show numbers IE: (3-10) with an arrow to the sample weldament in the old Hobart pocketbook. The 3 would be the lenth of the weld and the 10 is distance to the center of the weld segments.

  I think some people get the skip and the stitch mixed up. I had the stitch going so well (enjoying it I was) I forgot to skip. I used 3/16 MS plate. Ill take a hole saw with me for the inspectors if I have to change it to a ripping gusset. I like the gussets over the the tubing in this case. IMHO

  Harvey

[RidgeRunner]

     '09 ECTA rulebook, under 3.B.1 towards end of second paragraph, page 19:  "See figures 2,3,4,and 5.  On new construction a proper tubing gusset is preferred."  5th paragraph:  Should you decide to race at any SCTA sanctioned event, we strongly advise you to obtain a SCTA rulebook as their requirements are significantly different than what is stated above."

     Rules are written and enforced for the benefit of all concerned.  At times technical progress can advance faster than changes in the book are made.  Improvements can always be made with fine tuning - isn't that why we do what we do?  Not picking on any organizations, committees, or individuals here, but remembering [and thankful for] that these are volunteers within organizations doing their best to promote our common good.

     If detailed questions are submitted to the appropriate organizations/contact persons in a respectful, timely, and orderly manner I am confident common sense and logic will prevail for the benefit of all.

     I am helping out on the construction of a new lakester, when completed planning to run Maxton [or Loring] to start, eventually to the salt.  Has tube knee braces on the cage now.  Will certainly be in contact with the appropriate Tech Committee chairs prior to heading in any direction when the that time comes.

                                         Ed Purinton

[bharmon77]

Just curious, it appears that you have 3 keyways in your rear hubs with only one keyway in the rear axle. What is the reason for the three keyways? Sorry if your answer is already somewhere in the text, I missed it.
 
BHarmon