Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 800347 times)

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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1845 on: September 19, 2014, 12:02:07 AM »
The rod is wiggled off.  The towel is pulled to turn the rod cap around to the top of the journal.  The cap is pulled out.

A gudgeon pin seized in a little end bore when I used standard OEM Triumph rods years ago.  The pin and the bore were both steel.  The little end has a phosophor bronze bushing on the Carillo rods.  These are dissimilar metals and I hoped it would cure the problem.  It does.  No galling or seizing is seen and no noticeable wear is observed on either the pin or the bush.

Offline Sporty Dan

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1846 on: September 19, 2014, 07:37:09 PM »
You got that right, they aren't cheap at all. Especially when you start talking about high performance parts. I'm jealous of you being able to change your rod bearings. To do that, I have to split the crank due to the knife and fork rods. That and the roller bearings.

Offline tauruck

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1847 on: September 19, 2014, 08:50:51 PM »
Yup, stripping a Sporty is a mission Dan.

Bo's got it easy if you compare. :wink:

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1848 on: September 19, 2014, 09:50:33 PM »
This rod bearing thing is not something I thunk up on my own.  Matt Capri showed it to me and sold me these specially made rods out of his personal parts stock.  They are not a catalog item.  He gets credit for this.  He runs a turbo Bonnie and the big end bearings are looked at often.

The big ends of the standard OEM rods were black colored with oxidized oil when they were pulled after ten runs.  The oil was like graphite.  It stained the hands.  Those big ends were getting hot.

The bearings looked great on these rods.  What I did was to champher the oil holes in the journals like this.  Also, Triumph says the standard big end clearance is 0.036 to 0.066 mm with the service limit at 0.1 mm.  I try to set the clearance as close to halfway between 0.066 and 0.10 mm as I can.  The "white" coded shells are used on the turbo Bonnie.  They are the biggest shells and provide more clearance than my settings.

A few years ago someone on the i-net tested a bunch of oil filters and said the new generation filter media do a better job than the old.  Puralotor Pure 1 and Mobil 1 filters were among the better ones according the guy on the net.  Mobil 1 M-108 filters are used on this dog and the oil does look cleaner after a change.  There is vastly less carp imbedded in the shell wearing faces.  These filters do work.

So far, so good.  Nothing funky has been found yet.  This is unlike the previous tear downs when all sorts of problems were seen. 

   

Offline tauruck

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1849 on: September 19, 2014, 10:26:52 PM »
Bo, it all looks good.

I think oil needs to be looked into more carefully these days.
I saw something last week that really shocked me.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1850 on: September 20, 2014, 01:38:55 AM »
Tomorrow the cams and lifters will be looked at.  That is a sort of oil performance indicator.  They are the first to go if the oil choice is wrong.  What did you see, Mike?

Offline Sporty Dan

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1851 on: September 20, 2014, 11:35:04 AM »
Those bearings look great after the runs you've put on them. It just goes to show what careful preparation can do for you. Way to go!  :-D From what you've shown so far, it looks like you shouldn't have any issues with your cams or lifters.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1852 on: September 21, 2014, 10:56:47 PM »
The shells looked good until I examined them close.  A lower shell is on the left and an upper on the right.  Pressure on the rod bears on the middle of the shell on the right.  It is still good but impending failure is shown by the tear in the middle.  A piece of the inner surface broke away and made the groove.  The torn piece might be the imbedded flake that is visible.

The engine gets torn down every ten runs for inspection.  There are six on these inserts.  A bird on my shoulder chirped to me saying I had better take a look at these shells.  There was no indication anything was wrong, otherwise.  I am glad I acted on my intuition.

Care is taken to make sure all oxidized oil is removed from the inner surface of the rod big end before the shell is fitted.  This must be done to assure the clearance will be acceptable and not too tight.  JimL told me to make sure to do this.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1853 on: September 22, 2014, 10:18:59 PM »
The used gasket collection is being shipped down to Fontana for annealing in a vacuum furnace.  This oxygen free environment prevents the embrittlement that occurs during open flame annealing.  My preference is for annealed used gaskets over new ones 'cause they are already seated in.  The word "TOP" is scratched on all of them so I will put them back in their original positions.

A fellow from AUS is reading this build diary.  He is running a Bonneville like mine in the Modified class at Lake G.  His engines turn much more rpm and make more power than mine.  The oil he recommends is Penrite Ten Tenths having Class 4 POR polymers blended with Class V esters and a 2200 ppm zinc content.  It can be used in bikes with wet clutches.  He has no problems with it.

The oil I use is Mobil 1 4T bike oil boosted to 1800 ppm zinc with an additive.  The oil was dropped and it is black.  This oil has 3 runs on it at B'ville and 25 dyno pulls.  It should not look this bad.  It is time for me to upgrade.  Penrite is available from Summit Racing and I will order four liters tonight.  It is made in AUS so no quarts.  Liters it is.       

Offline manta22

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1854 on: September 23, 2014, 04:26:54 PM »
WW;

Don't be too quick to blame the oil if it's black. It might be just doing its job-- usually the black color is due to fine carbon particles that are suspended in the oil. Maybe you have a ring-seating problem, etc.?

Maybe someone else can comment.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1855 on: September 23, 2014, 05:13:49 PM »
If the oil is black it's probably not an oil problem. The oil is used to clean the engine. If it's black it's doing it's job. You need to find out what's causing the black. The oil may stay a lot cleaner after the first oil change. If the oil smells burned then you have a problem and it still isn't with the oil.

Pete

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1856 on: September 23, 2014, 10:30:17 PM »
Thanks, Pete and Neil.  Before I read your replies I ordered some of that oil from Summit Racing.  They pay shipping for orders over $100.  That, and buying about 5 years worth of oil, brought the cost down to $13.56 per quart.  Not bad.

The rings on my pistons are the thicker ones.  I never anticipated winding the engine up real tight when I ordered the slugs.  I was not worried about flutter.  Otherwise, I could have ordered the thinner rings.  I will do some calcs this evening and figure out the rpm I was turning.  Also, I will look at the oil under a microscope. 

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1857 on: September 24, 2014, 12:32:30 AM »
The first run was with a 36 tooth rear sprocket at 7,000 rpm and 146 mph.  The second run was with a 38 tooth rear at 7,170 rpm and 142 mph.  The rev limiter is set at 8,400 rpm and it pulls right up to the limiter on the dyno.  It did not do that on the salt.  The sensation was like it had a rev limiter set for a much lower rpm.  Something was holding it back.  7,170 rpm was all it could do.

The average piston speed at 7,170 rpm is 3,120 fps, the maximum piston speed is 5,030 fps, and the maximum piston acceleration is 83,600 feet per second squared.  All too low to cause ring flutter under normal circumstances.

A problem I have is the mixture going rich at high rpm.  It is noticeable with non-oxygenated leaded and more of a problem with the heavily oxygenated unleaded.  Normally, a bigger air main jet would fix it.  I am already using the biggest air main jets for FCRs, a pair of #200s.  One project for this year is figuring out a cure for this.

Would the mixture going rich at high rpm cause the oil discoloration?

Offline manta22

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1858 on: September 24, 2014, 11:35:06 AM »
WW;

A really rich mixture could tend to wash the oil off the cylinder walls.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1859 on: September 24, 2014, 10:55:17 PM »
The oil arrived from Summit Racing.  They sure provide fast service!  The oil is Penrite 10 Tenths Racing 10.  It says it is compatible with wet motorcycle clutches.  It has a zinc content in excess of 2200 ppm.  It is really difficult to find a bike oil for use with wet clutches with this high zinc content.  The oil is compatible with racing grade E85 as well as other fuels.  It seems to be a good choice.  The plan is to use it and see what happens.  I will also figure out and cure the fuel mixture problem.